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28 July 2004 @ 09:21 pm
Contemplation...  
I think a few days ago, someone posted asking what we think will happen at the end... Granted, this is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think Al's going to die. It's the only ending that makes sense.

1) There is no way that Ed and Al are going to regain their bodies. Not only because it doesn't go along with the "mood" of the series, but it completely goes against the whole theme of "equivilant trade". They've been shoving the principle of equivilant trade in our faces from the start, and for them to just find and use the philosopher's stone to get their bodies back is just kinda... cheap. Not only that, but they did something wrong. They got punished for it. To take the punishment back gives the message "I can mess with nature as much as I want because the results won't be permanent".

2) If they aren't getting their bodies back, it would be no problem for Ed to continue living the way he is. But Al can't survive as a suit of armour. Without the ability to use his senses, he'd be cut off from humanity and eventually lose his. He's been suffering like that for years, commenting about how much he wants to touch his brother again and angsting over how he might not even exist. It's just merciful to put him out of his misery.

3) For the theory that Ed would die to give Al his body back, that most likely won't happen. First of all, we already know that Ed won't do *anything* for his brother. He wouldn't kill all those people to create the philosopher's stone. On top of that, Ed doesn't strike me as a suicidal person. He's a good alchemist, and he knows it. He's a big help to the public, and he knows it. He knows he'd do more good for the people alive than dead.

4) All the character deaths in the series have been preparing Ed for the eventual death of his brother. Every time someone dies, Ed lost it. Notice Al doesn't have as intense a reaction as Ed does. This could be linked back to the fact that Al can't really "feel", but I think it is to make us focus on Ed and how he reacts to death. He will slowly come to accept the fact that people close to him will die, and he will, in the end, accept the death of his brother.

5) The philosopher's stone is not of nature. It is not meant to exist. Being that now Al is the philosopher's stone means Al is not meant to exist.

So there you have it. Anyone else want to throw in their $0.02? I'd like to hear other opinions or theories.

Crossposted in my personal journal and fmalchemist
 
 
reversing the polarity of the neutron flow: *loads gun* Die Envy DIE!shinraisei on July 28th, 2004 09:33 pm (UTC)
1) Well true about how that's been one of the themes in this series, but it has been said and proven that the Philosopher's Stone does not follow the rules abided in Alchemy. But as I put as a theory in one discussion regarding episodes 41-42, there will be something that will stop them and/or prevent the brothers from using the stone whether that means Ed and Al worrying over if its the 'complete' or 'incomplete' stone and if its incomplete, will what happened to all the other 'incomplete' stoness before it will happen to Al. (them shattering. For all we know that might be just how the stones act, they shatter themselves after certain use...but that's another theory ;).)

I like 4)...that is a good reason, but it might be the wrong person who dies.
It would be odd though if Al died...there is a movie planned for next year and it takes place after the end of the series so...you never know. Good stuff though =)
Wiccat: standard FMA - deadly sin - cherrylilwolwiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:17 pm (UTC)
I can't wait for the movie *_* I don't want the series to end...
(no subject) - tomoyodaidouji on July 28th, 2004 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Aly: Hughes/Dogs and angels x [me]mother on July 28th, 2004 09:36 pm (UTC)
This is off topic..

I love that you're using my icons, and I love that you're giving credit, but PLEASE comment telling me when you take them and which ones, okie? <3

and you're missing credit on one of them, and some of the credits are missing letter O.O *nitpicks*

Just wanted to say I agreed wholy on your hypothesis on the ending, well done! This anime is more angst then anythign, so why would it be a happy ending? Perhaps Al gets killed by Wrath (it seems Wrath will be the last that Ed has to fight? Him or Sloth) and then Ed goes beserk. Could happen.
Wiccat: standard kenshin - hooray!wiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:08 pm (UTC)
I thought I did O_O I'm sorry, I usually do comment that I'm taking icons. I must've been in a hurry with yours, again sorry ^_^;;

I think Envy will be the last sin to survive... Only because he seems to be the most powerful of all and a "boss" character.
(no subject) - mother on July 28th, 2004 10:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kalika Maxwellkalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 09:38 pm (UTC)
I disagree with number 1. Notice that up until ep 40, we got the little speech about how they believed equivalent trade was the truth of the world when they were young. Ep 41? That's gone. I believe this means they're realizing equivalent trade just doesn't work for everything. Life isn't science. And even if it does work, I think they gave enough to deserve to suceed. We even lost Hughes for this damnit.

I still stand by my point that Alphonse's punishment far exceeded the crime. The other alchemists who tried HT didn't loose that much. A few organs, a few limbs or their sight. Al is also what I see as the raison d'être of the series. Picture an AU where Alphonse would simply have died. Would Edward have cared to look for some mystical stone? Even now he doesn't care much about his own missing limbs. If Al dies, I call that the dumbest ending ever. Er, okay, maybe second to Eva.

You make sense, but I'd rather remain in denial as much as I can...although I must admit the events of ep 42 indicate Al still has a strong sense of self-sacrifice. He'd rather die than let others die for him. Damn brat. >.>
Wiccat: standard FMA - deadly sin - cherrylilwolwiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:14 pm (UTC)
Perhaps... but remember that Al and Ed were kids when they did the transmutation. Every other HT was done by adults, who were bigger with bigger body parts to equal out the price needed. I dunno why it chose to take all of Al and only some of Ed. Maybe Al was closer?

I'm sure even if Al dies, the writers will come up with a way to make the ending semi-happy... He joins his mom, Hughes and Nina in heaven?
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 10:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 10:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wiccat on July 28th, 2004 10:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - maliza on July 28th, 2004 10:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 11:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tomoyodaidouji on July 28th, 2004 11:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 11:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tomoyodaidouji on July 28th, 2004 11:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 11:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tomoyodaidouji on July 29th, 2004 12:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on July 28th, 2004 11:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on July 28th, 2004 11:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on July 28th, 2004 11:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - whimsy_chan on July 29th, 2004 10:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wiccat on July 29th, 2004 10:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mii_chan on July 29th, 2004 03:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wiccat on July 29th, 2004 06:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
If you can't tell, look at the image name. - finnell1912 on July 29th, 2004 07:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If you can't tell, look at the image name. - wiccat on July 29th, 2004 07:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If you can't tell, look at the image name. - finnell1912 on July 29th, 2004 07:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If you can't tell, look at the image name. - wiccat on July 30th, 2004 12:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: If you can't tell, look at the image name. - mii_chan on July 30th, 2004 09:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
割れた妖精riven on July 28th, 2004 10:27 pm (UTC)
Well-written, and while I have absolutely been dreading the possibility of Al dying, what you've written seems very likely. :(
Justine Ysabel Perezjoruri on July 28th, 2004 10:40 pm (UTC)
Maybe they will go against equivalent trade soon... They did stop showing it in the opening. That mean something?^^;; ::shrugs::
Thief King: Ed Rainbows (iconthesis)piratelooksat20 on July 28th, 2004 11:24 pm (UTC)
If Al ends up dying at the end, I will swear of anime. Because that will be the *second* series I've fallen in love with where they killed one (or more!) of the main characters.

Right now, that theory does sorta make sense, but I'm going to wait for a few more episodes before speculating about that. I know not every anime has a happy-ever-after ending, but I'm not sure if they'd go THAT far.

Then again, I'm usually the only one who doesn't see these things coming, so I'm probably wrong and you're probably right. :)
breakin' through the door: No Good Deedmiss_arel on July 28th, 2004 11:36 pm (UTC)
You presenty some valid arguments, but I disagree: Al will not die.

1) I agree that for Ed and Al to regain their bodies through alchemy would be counter to the whole message of the series: Human beings cannot gain anything without sacrifices. But Edward sacrificing Al to save his own skin? That in a million years would never happen.

2) I agree that for Al to remain forever as he is now is a fate worse than death.

3) Ed won't kill other people. But I don't believe he'd hold back from sacrificing his own life to save his brother. Al is all that he lives for now; he's not living for himself or his friends or the people he can help; they are only stops along his way. Al is the focus, Al is the point. Al is Ed's reason to live, and, if need be, his reason to die. Ed has a high regard for human life, but as ar as he's concerned, his own life belongs to Al, and if the only way to give Al a life is to sacrifice his own, I think he would do it willingly.

4) I think, rather, they've been preparing Ed to die. Again, I think Ed could deal with just about anything - except Al's death. Ed's suffered through the deaths of his mother and of Nina and, yes, Greed (and he will suffer through the death of Hughes, once he becomes aware of it), but he's survived because Al's needed him. But for Al to die would destroy him. Utterly. There would be nothing left of him if Al died. For Al to die would be a death sentence for Ed as well. This to me is very clear. You say that in time, Ed would learn to accept the death of his brother, but that's the one thing he could never accept. Everything he's done since the accident has been for Al's sake; what would he have left if his brother were dead?

On the other hand, if Ed were to give his life for Al . . . if Al were restored because Ed exchanged his own life . . . I think he could, in time, cope with it. Al loves his brother, but Ed is not his reason to be. He would grieve, but he would have the memory of what his brother did for him and the experience of living, truly living, again. And he could be happy again.

5) The Homunculus are not natural either, and yet they exist. Quite persistently, in fact. Same goes for talking suits of armor and chimeras and a lot of other things in this show.

None of us really understand what the Philosopher's Stone is; whether it is meant to exist is a question of, well, philosophy. I don't know yet what these revent events will mean, and so I refuse to pass judgement on them till I understand them fully.

Wow, that was rather more than 2 cents . . . it felt good to get it all out. That's my prediction, though: Ed will give his life to save Al. It's not the happiest ending, but it's the only one that fits the themes of this show while still making me not want to cut my wrists. (Or making Ed want to cut his, for that matter.) But of course, that's just what I think. Only time will prove me right or left.
Wiccat: funny kenshin - orowiccat on July 29th, 2004 12:13 am (UTC)
3) I don't believe he'd do it that willingly. Though I agree that Al is probably Ed's reason to live, he's not his reason to die. Ed may be a highly emotional little guy, but he's not stupid. I think he knows what his death would do to Al. To just decide to give his life for his brother (either ignoring his protests or not letting him know at all) is, well, selfish. He knows Al too well, and he knows that Al will spend the rest of his life blaming himself for Ed's death. And as Ed is very clearly familiar with that kind of guilt, I doubt he'd willingly put it on his brother's shoulders. I believe if the opportunity came up, they would argue, but in the end both choose to remain as they are than to be seperated by death.

4) Nrrg... I really can't reply to this without throwing spoilers in everyone's face @_@

5) Yes, but the humonculuses (humonculi?) must be destroyed. It's been made very clear that there's no qualms in killing them (as opposed to, say, killing a human bad guy). As much as I remember (sorry, haven't seen the earlier episodes in a while) most, if not all, chimeras are either destroyed or are living in misery. To me, they are just test subjects, like chemists mixing together elements and hoping to create a stable new compound. Sometimes, if they're lucky, it works and science is furthered. But a lot of times, it bubbles and then blows up in their face (speaking from experience ;) ). And soon, the talking suits of armour will be destroyed as well XD

*looks over posts and changes it to $0.25*
(no subject) - kiraseldon on July 29th, 2004 10:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Poison Envy: I won't listenwinter_ruins on July 29th, 2004 08:47 am (UTC)
I have to agree with other people in the fact that I believe that Ed will give up his life for Al. I've been thinking it ever since I first started seeing the series in the first... like, three episodes.

Ed: We will get your body back, Al.
Al: And your arm and your leg, right 'niisan?
Ed: .... Yeah.

>.> Sorry for not direct quoting, but I don't have the episode on my computer XD
Wiccat: standard FMA - deadly sin - cherrylilwolwiccat on July 29th, 2004 08:49 am (UTC)
LoL, good enough XD I honestly don't know... With the evidence I pointed out and what the FUNimation people told me, I still have to lean towards the fact that Al will die ^__^
Kira Seldonkiraseldon on July 29th, 2004 09:25 pm (UTC)
I agree it's a possible ending, but I'm convinced that Ed wouldn't be able to deal with Al's death. He definitely seems to have been psyching himself up to sacrifice his life for his brother if necessary (ref. the "...yeah" line that dakkairachan quoted) and I think he'd be utterly lost if Al, instead, was killed. He *certainly* wouldn't consciously choose his own life over Al's. And - if he did it unconsciously - that would *definitely* push him over the edge.

Al is more stable than Ed is. Rather than being utterly consumed by the emotion of the moment, he steps back, thinks about consequences, and listens to more than one side of every story. This isn't a trait he magically acquired since being trapped in a suit of armor; even when younger, he was the more empathetic and thoughtful of the two. He's still emotionally affected by events, but he doesn't let his immediate emotion utterly consume his capacity for rational thought. Ed does. Without exception, every time Ed gets emotional, rationality goes right out the window.

If Ed died, Al would be devastated, but he'd recover.

If Al died, Ed would probably do some pretty drastic things (possibly including, if he blamed himself, passive suicide) before his intellect kicked in enough to get him to consider whether Al would be happy to see his niisan pulling that kind of shit.

Actually, I'm hoping for an "Al is restored and Ed doesn't die" ending, but since that particular slice of pie-in-the-sky seems less than likely at the moment, the only ending that wouldn't destroy *both* of them is Ed's death restoring Al.
Wiccat: standard FMA - deadly sin - cherrylilwolwiccat on July 30th, 2004 12:26 am (UTC)
Who knows, maybe the ending is meant to destroy both of them. It *is* a rather dark and angsty series... that could be the final blow.

"You messed with nature, you got your punishment... and you're STILL trying to mess with nature to REMOVE the punishment?!! Aw, hell no, you suffer, bastards!"
(no subject) - csakuras on July 30th, 2004 04:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)