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20 July 2004 @ 01:04 am
A few questions  
Nobody's brought up what I wanted to hear about, so I'm going to do it. Spoiler's from episode 40 are behind the cut.

1) In the past, Kimbly has transmutation circles on his palms in order to make people explode. Notice that now in the future he does the clappy thing like Ed and Izumi. Why do you think that is? Episode 40 will demonstrate the difference but you can see it in past episodes too.

2) In the preview for episode 41, Ed says something along the lines of "That voice, it...sounds familiar" as a lot of people are walking into a large room. I think the dad is behind the whole thing. I can't think of one good reason why, but that's my intuition. Lyla's suddenly there, the philosopher's stone is going to be made, and all the homunculus are heading to Lior. Assuming Lyla is Dante is some manner, we know Dante knows about Hohenheim and supposedly where he is. Seeming kind of anti-philosopher's stone, I think it's kind of weird that she'd show up, though. Lust distinguishes the difference between "that person" and Pride in episode 39 at the end. Unless the translation confused me and they aren't the same person, someone's in control of all of this. It would have to be the dad, because nobody else would be a good choice. The only thing that would make sense is that we know he's seeking the philosopher's stone. What I don't understand is why he'd allow his kids to be killed (and possibly have ordered that), what he'd even do with the philosopher's stone if he got it (I don't really see a motive for him obtaining it other than power, which is pretty boring), and how Envy would hate him and still follow him at the same time. I want him to be a good guy and have a good excuse for disappearing, but at the same time I think the story would be better if there was an amazing reason I haven't been able to think of yet that explains why he'd be behind all this. Who else would make a worthwhile bad guy? I can't think of anyone else that would make the story come full-circle so well. Still, they'd have a lot of explaining to do. Oh, and I forgot the mention--I think Envy said (I really have no idea but I'd expect it from him--I know someone said it) that if one of the other Homunculi died, "he'd" make another one. That's another hint.

3) Scar's brother (Bruce?) appears to have not been harmed by performing human transmutation.

Izumi created Wrath.
Scar's brother created Lust.
Ed/Al created Sloth.
Supposedly Dante created Greed.
??? created Envy a very long time ago.
??? Gluttony.
??? created Pride.

I can't think of anyone old enough, dead or alive, who could've created Envy. I don't know who the hell would want to revive Gluttony. I like him as a character, but can you imagine anyone loving him that much? I guess he was probably different when he was alive, but jeez, he's creepy now. I'm guessing the Fuhrer died (stabbed in the eye, maybe?) at some point and was revived by "him" (who I think has to be the dad but I'm sure I'll be getting a lot of you disagreeing with me).

4) Winry's conveniently going back to Rizenbul (I've given up on spelling that correctly since it seems to change every episode) so Ed and Al may be going to get the bones of their mother...or something...

I had other things too but I forgot what they were. I guess this is a good place to start. I'd like to see what other people have noticed/are thinking about this stuff...
 
 
:+:Root of the Oracle:+:rootoftheoracle on July 19th, 2004 11:30 pm (UTC)
I still dont know about Rose and the baby. Is that baby belong to her and scar??!?! O_o *is confused*
linwen: Lust Elegance - maho_kiwilinwen on July 19th, 2004 11:38 pm (UTC)
Nah, he implied that Rose was raped by one of the soldiers during the upstart they were sent to suppress.
linwen: Lust bloody cute - pink_revolutionlinwen on July 19th, 2004 11:37 pm (UTC)
I'm glad to see that Archer's out of the running for Pride, I really hate and loath his character. He gives me a royal case of the creeps >.<

I don't think Kimbley's clapping had anything to do with much, except if he needed to so in order to blow a hole in the wall Al had set up to cage him. Either that, or (my opinion here) he was poking fun at Ed by doing so.

I'm not sure about Hohenheim just yet, though I am leaning toward him being behind this whole plot for some reason or another for good or ill purposes. Or him in league with Envy, assuming that Envy is a lot older than Hohenheim.

Apparently not, unless you count a slight case of madness? He didn't seem to be all there afterward, but maybe that was shock from seeing what he'd done to Lust's former self.

Mad Gluttony is SCARY. Never take away his 'mommy'. Even though Lust makes a creepy sort of mother figure for Gluttony. he seems like a great big stupid child, the one that's kinda adorable in a really...weird kinda way >.> I wonder if he'll eat Scar this time...*hopes so, still hates Scar*
goat_sangoat_san on July 20th, 2004 12:02 am (UTC)
yeah, well gluttony is as stupid as a kid, and besides, who wouldn't want to have such a hot mom. i can see some wierd hentai with gluttony wanting a taste of that.
holly_san on July 20th, 2004 12:04 am (UTC)
Nah, Armstrong would kill Lust if anyone went near his Gluttony-hoe. >D

Gluttony x Armstrong is OTP, d00d!
goat_sangoat_san on July 20th, 2004 03:11 am (UTC)
yeah cause armstrong loves those pudgey one.
NAh, The non-yaoi stuff is for me
Mike, Die Führer von Piggieszackx78 on July 20th, 2004 05:49 pm (UTC)
So youd say that Lust would be a "MILF" correct?
goat_sangoat_san on July 20th, 2004 11:39 pm (UTC)
if she was real, yeah
Mike, Die Führer von Piggieszackx78 on July 21st, 2004 02:39 pm (UTC)
Heh, i dont blame you
Kalika Maxwellkalikamaxwell on July 19th, 2004 11:48 pm (UTC)
*blinks* Kimblee's tattoos are still there, aren't they? To kill the guy, he doesn't seem to clap (no clapping sound/no visual), just puts his hands on the guy's shoulder to use his tattoos. I dunno why he clapped the other time. More reaction power by using the two circles? I can't see any good reason for him to get clappy hands. I must drive myself insane wondering about it now.

I've been sure and certain their dad is behind all thing ever since the lab incident when Envy says he hates Edward for having 'his' blood. You can't get any bigger clue. They keep talking about how he used to search for the stone too. It's just too obvious.

3...uh, lost his sanity? ^^;; I don't know, maybe he didn't see the truth because it's a different alchemy. I used to think maybe he was closer to success than the others, and that's why Lust remembers stuff, but that's obviously not it.

Agreed on 4.
rolfkaese on July 20th, 2004 12:34 am (UTC)
just a thought, but it looks like Bruce lost his penis.... look at the one scene in episode 40, the door scene with scar, the blood runs down his leg coming from the region where normally... you know what i mean to say O_o
Justine Ysabel Perezjoruri on July 20th, 2004 12:37 am (UTC)
Woah. Thas a bit creepy though don't ya think? XD
♞ lovely little liar ♞metallic_sweet on July 20th, 2004 11:29 am (UTC)
I think he lost, more exactly, he reproductive organs, not just that.
Cynthiacsakuras on July 20th, 2004 12:31 pm (UTC)
But that would make a lot of sense, you know? I mean Izumi lost her reproductive organs trying to revive her child, so 'Bruce' would lose his...umm...for his girlfriend.
And the result is Lust. LUST.
tunetherainbow on July 20th, 2004 01:05 pm (UTC)
Yes, this is also what I believe. Poor Bruce. >_>;;
In the later scene where he's fully tattooed and of the nude persuasion, you can also see that he has a large scar beginning at his stomach--where it ends isn't shown.
Mike: Smile (FMA)finnell1912 on July 20th, 2004 07:16 pm (UTC)
Visual...
elanivalaeelanivalae on July 20th, 2004 01:30 am (UTC)
Like I said, I think too much xD
I've pretty much been sure that Hohenheim is at the root of all this since...gosh, soon after I started watching FMA, and that was ages ago xD They've foreshadowed it practically since the very beginning, and by episode 20 or so, they were more or less hitting us over the head with a hammer to drive the point home ^^; He's the only character that's been consistently mentioned since the first couple of episodes, and yet we've never seen him -- even his picture is hard to make out. That alone is very suspicious. He had texts on human alchemy, connections with the military, and mysteriously fell off the face of the earth at some point (which, as myriad fanfic authors like to point out, is extremely difficult to do when you have lots of power and are involved with the military ^^;)

Warning: Bizarre, off the wall, crackpot theorizing ^_^ Take with a grain of salt.

My personal oddball theory for a while now has been that, for whatever reason, Hohenheim has been actively seeking the Philosopher's Stone since the very beginning, and that's driven all his actions up to this point -- including fathering Ed and Al. One of the things about FMA that's been kind of poking at the back of my mind for a long time is the presence and importance of children in it. It seems overstated for an anime in which the main action is taking place in the adult world, even if the main characters are young. A huge percentage of the episodes, especially the early ones, have terrible things happening to children. And then we hear about how it's much more effective to create prototype Stones by using unborn babies. And then, at just about the same time an infant with a "holy mother" or whatever appears, right at the epicenter of Stone-related activity, Ed suddenly becomes a lot more expendable.

Ed...who's always been eerily good at alchemy, and who's so filled with alchemical color symbolism it's not even funny (and is also, if I'm not overlooking something, in possession of utterly unique coloration, what with the gold hair and gold eyes). So what am I getting at? I think the Philosopher's Stone, in its ultimate form, is a person -- it was never really defined solely as a stone in traditional alchemy, and they've reinforced that point in FMA. Also, children are associated in alchemical symbolism with the Stone: "In iconography, the child can also stand for mystic knowledge, openness to faith, as in the alchemist's image of a crowned child who represented the Philosopher's Stone." (Dictionary of Symbols, Jack Tresidder). I think Ed was a failed experiment that Hohenheim tried to salvage. I don't think it's a coincidence that Trisha died of a mysterious chronic wasting illness. I don't think Hohenheim is going to turn out to be one of those villains with a good reason for doing what he did...but that's just my hunch. ^_^ Anyway...I could go on about this for ages, but this is too long already, so I'll shut up now. :D

reversing the polarity of the neutron flow: *loads gun* Die Envy DIE!shinraisei on July 20th, 2004 02:11 am (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
*whistles in amazement*

Those are some of the thoughts basically swimming about my head about the whole Hoenheim involvement. (and there is an episode specially entitled "Hoenheim of the Light")

I just hope Archer dies a slow and painful death at the hands of the Fuhrer...>>; I swear, every scene with Archer I'm either like:"die.." or "*shudder*". Look how pale he is! o_O; (and the eyes...and the "I'm like Brig. General Grand, I lurve killing and want to create Chimera and such for use in war" attitude)

Actually your theory holds alot of water right now...Ed's a catalyst until proven he's not summarizes my theory partially. But if Ed is a somewhat "failed experiment" what is Al? An actual child? Or what? (and he can't be non-existant because 66 lied to Al and was a hypocrite himself since 66 DID exist as Barry the Chopper and he was running around saying that Al's a fake. Unless my covered-in-20ft-sand-dunes theory about there being 'variety' with souls being sealed into objects. 66 may have existed but Al, Al may have not. But alas this theory was put under 20ft dunes since we've seen way too many flashbacks to prove to the viewer that Alphonse Elric was a real person. XD)


I actually do belive that Dante could be Lyra and perhaps it could've been possible for her to stage her own death (by killing Lyra? o_O;.). However, something Dante said bothers me now, in episode 33 I think it was, after having talked to Izumi, Dante said that they would not see each other or something and that was foreshadowing, my question in my head is "To what extent?". To what's happening now? If she is Lyra then that somewhat sticks to her statement, if she actually DID die that sticks too but if its a foreshadowing for the next character death, or maybe even what might happen to either in the end, its just bugging me o_o;. *looks at clock,* O_O! (notes its 3:10am her time >>;.) I'll clear this up more later today *scurries to bed* o_O;
elanivalaeelanivalae on July 20th, 2004 02:47 am (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
I do think Dante is Lyra right now. Her death was too suspicious, and we have no reason to believe, after seeing Lyra's alchemical performance earlier in the series, that she would actually be capable of setting up anything like the array that was giving Greed problems. The only other possibility that I can come up with (and it's really not clicking for me) is that Dante selected Lyra as some sort of acolyte, passed on her own knowledge/ability, and then died. *shrugs*

As for Al -- I'm not suggesting for a moment that he didn't exist, even playing around in the "what-if" world of this little theory. :) If you think about it, the red water that was used for the fetal experimentation was very bad for humans, and it generally manifested its effects as some sort of chronic illness (took the kids out first, but, then, most diseases do.) If Trisha were exposed to it in that manner while pregnant with Ed, I don't think it likely that it wouldn't have some sort of detrimental effect -- the same result couldn't be gotten twice using the same subject. Hohenheim split at that point; that could have been why -- he realized he wasn't going to get what he wanted. Al, also, has innate alchemical talent. His coloration is a lot more natural than Ed's, but it could easily be seen as a sort of faded out gold.

*yawn* Geez, it's late. Speculation is fun, but I probably ought to head to bed. ^_^;
Cynthiacsakuras on July 20th, 2004 12:47 pm (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
Notice that Lyra's personality seems to have 'changed' when Ed and Al first encounter her at Dante's house (she's more bubbly).
But then in episode 40, she's deadly serious again (though she could be in mourning, and the situation definetly calls for seriousness).
I'm not suggesting anything, but if the theory of Dante-is-really-Lyra proves to be true, well, that's just more proof for ya.
Mike: Smile (FMA)finnell1912 on July 20th, 2004 06:47 am (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
Do a search in google for ["Philosophers stone" "White stone" "Red stone" milk] and look at some of the results. I haven't had a chance to read it, but it looks like they talk about children, or symbolic children being involved. I also threw milk in there as it can be associated with life and nurturing, and Ed hates it.
elanivalaeelanivalae on July 20th, 2004 02:18 pm (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
Milk has a lot of symbolic significance, oddly enough. Once again, the book that I cited above does the best job I've seen of condensing the information, so I'll quote from there:

Milk - The elixir of life, rebirth, and immortality -- a metaphor for kindness, care, compassion, abundance, and fertility. In Indian tradition, the fundamental role of milk is expressed in a Vedic myth of the origin of the world, when gods and anti-gods churned the cosmic pail of the primeval ocean to create first milk, then butter, then the sun and moon, and finally the elixir of immortality, "soma". [Sun and moon? Elixir of life? *cough*] A milk-giving tree grew in the Hindu paradise. Milk appears in many traditions, including Celtic, as a drink of immortality. Apart from the obvious links with nursing and motherhood or adoption, milk was an initiation or rebirth symbol in Greek Orphic rites, in Islam, and at early Christian baptisms. It was poured as a libation for the resurrection of the god Osiris in Egypt, and in spring fertility rites elsewhere. More generally, it represented the drinking in of knowledge or spiritual nourishment. Its color also made it a symbol of purity -- milk rather than blood was said to have spurted from the decapitated St. Catherine of Alexandria.

What's kind of interesting to me is that some of Ed's symbolism is at odds with itself. ^_^ Other things about him -- the lack of need for an array, his gold coloration, his previous dismemberment -- all classically symbolize having achieved that knowledge and spiritual purity, yet we all know his feelings toward milk. xD Heh. I sincerely doubt Arakawa sat down with a symbolism book to pick this stuff out and cross-check every possible meaning, but I'm gaining a lot of respect for his/her amazingly large font of symbolic knowledge, nonetheless. One of the things I like best about FMA is the room left open for interpretation -- even things that initially seem minor have the potential to really mean something further down the road. :D
shuugasmer on July 20th, 2004 10:49 am (UTC)
Re: Like I said, I think too much xD
Hrm... Come to think of it, it's possible that Ed has something to do with Hohenheim's 'experiments'/etc. My friend and I are busy developing theories about Ed and Al's mom, but we're still not very sure. @___@
Matthew Boylan AKA Xeion: Lubey Roy!xeion on July 20th, 2004 04:05 am (UTC)
I belive that black hyate will turn out to be Hohenheim! (well, It's probably as true as most of our guesses XD)
Saya Aenslandsaya_aensland on July 20th, 2004 05:38 am (UTC)
Manga spoilers, highlight to read: In the manga, Hohenheim created the Homunculii (they're born in a different way in the manga). Hohenheim's presence and importance have been confirmed, so he's probably leading/controlling the homunculii in the anime.
Mike: Smile (FMA)finnell1912 on July 20th, 2004 06:24 am (UTC)
Kimblee seems to have sort of an "Open Circuit" of a transmutation circle on his hands. 2 parts to a whole, he seems to either have to put both his hands on the target to make them blow, or to clap them together to complete the circuit to transmute something.

With Ed, he and his knowledge are the circle and the calp is the completion of the circle. Since there are different types of circles for different jobs Ed is extremely powerful. Kimblee can only ever (using the circles on his hands) blow stuff up, that's what his cirlces are designed for.

So many interestng theorys on Hohenhaim in here. The more I think about it, ya, the more it seems like he did everything in his life for the sake of getting the stone. And if the stone truely is a person I could easily see him wowing some country girl with some alchemy, playing with her feelings and having a couple of experiments with her. Then when they 'fail' he takes off in search of another method. Or perhaps his taking off was part of the overall method.

Big item on my list is how and why did he get the title "of the Light" what the hell kind of crazy power/knowledge does he have?

Also I was watching Scar's brother transmutation and I think I'd have to agree with him loose'n his dealie. His crotch is soaked in blood after he does it, and when you see him naked and covered in tattoos you'll notice his crotch area has the same "discoloration" used for showing Scar's scar. Plus what better part to loose after making a homonculus called "Lust."

Dante taking Lyra's body would be interesting. If she's a fan of stealing bodies that would explain how she made Greed 140 years ago. I guess if she really is that good she could find a way to bind her soul to another living body, as fucked up as that sounds.
rolfkaese on July 20th, 2004 11:39 pm (UTC)
*fully agrees*
gaarathe_gourd_baby on July 21st, 2004 01:20 am (UTC)
So, here's some info regarding Hohenheim.

SPOILER ALERT !!!

Hohenheim is definately behind it all. Envy loathes him, Lust makes mention of him, and well, Ed and Al can't stop talking about him. And, if you look up the word Homunculus on google, you'll find out that a man by the name of Hohenheim created them. So, there you go.
Mike: Smile (FMA)finnell1912 on July 21st, 2004 07:57 am (UTC)
Highlight
This is what I found, I left the last bit open to see as it's not really a spoiler just an interesting tid-bit. Reminded me of Wrath.


Paracelsus (November 11 or December 17, 1493 - September 24, 1541) was a famous alchemist, physician and occultist. Born Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, he took the name Paracelsus later in life, meaning "superior to Celsus", an early Roman physician. He was also known by the pseudonym Theophrastus Philippus Aureolus Bombastus von Hohenheim.

He once claimed that he had created a false human being that he referred to as the homunculus. The creature was to have stood no more than 12 inches tall, and does the work usually associated with a golem

A golem (sometimes pronounced Goilem), in medieval folklore and from Hebrew mythology is an animated being crafted from clay or stone. The name appears to derive from the word gelem, which means 'raw material'.

The Golem is inscribed with magic or religious words that keep it animated. Writing the name of God on its forehead, or writing the word Emet ('truth' in the Hebrew language) on its forehead are examples of such words. By erasing the first letter in 'Emet' to form 'Met' ('death' in Hebrew) the golem can be destroyed.

However,
after a short time, the homunculus would turn on its creator and run away.