Log in

No account? Create an account
12 July 2006 @ 12:14 pm
Food for thought anyone?  
SPOILERS for the end of anime/movie behind a cut!

Being a fan of Science fiction literature and FMA (The perfect combination for killing brain cells. XD), I realized a connection...

Well, first off, let's start with the butterfly theory. It was mentioned in one of Ray Bradbury's short stories from R is for Rocket, called "A Sound of Thunder".
The theory, and the story itself, explained how destructive it would be if time travelling ever became possible.

The thing is, if you went back into the prehistoric era and stepped on a bug, all the future offspring of that bug would instantly cease to exist, and that's a lot of bugs, not to mention THEIR offspring. All those bugs lost might cause a single bird to starve to death. Think about that bird's entire offspring, and all of the animals that eat that bird, and their offspring. The sudden absence of all these animals could cause, further in the future, for a caveman to starve to death. Now, what if said caveman was the ancestor of Martin Luther King Jr.? Mother Theresa? George W. Bush?

How does this connect to the FMA movie? You see, the Elric brothers were meant to stay in Amestris. They were never meant to go on our side of the gate. They went against the laws of nature, just like a time traveller would do. If this actually happened in real life, what kind of impact would they make on the world? If the Elrics spent the rest of their lives on our side of the gate, how many bugs do you think they stepped on?

Really makes you think, doesn't it? ;D
nightfireblaze: The Sinner Ednightfireblaze on July 13th, 2006 07:00 pm (UTC)
Didn't they see her soul within the gate? That is what Ed was reaching for when he first went in right? So it's completly possible.

Though when the soul is still waiting outside of the gate when the person first dies I think is the time that the mind is still completly intact and can return normally like Ed did for Al's sacrifice, but Trisha would have a severe memory loss if not lost her mind completly. I don't think she wouldn't have any memories though, because it is her soul, and Ed put memories into Sloth; so maybe not everything would come back to her mind but she'd have enough to identify herself with.

All this tought is just figuring out a logical way for it to happen if we were to think of how they would interact then it would be a less serious and more cracktastic disscussion.
Still Naive, Not Photogenic: Die Youngsliefoxx on July 13th, 2006 08:13 pm (UTC)
I want to say that it was Wrath who Edward saw, not Trisha. Or maybe he saw both, and it was Wrath who remembered later ...

But, Trisha's memory might be a fifty/fifty thing, since Edward remembered, but Al didn't, until his blood seal was touched by Marta's blood. I want to say that Al didn't remember anything because his body was still in the gate, so part of his soul was too, especally since in the manga, Al's body was able to talk while in the gate.

Maybe because Marta was able to 'touch up' the seal, that was enough to trigger his memory; I'm thinking, an outside force would be able to affect what happens within the Gate, like how what happens within the Gate affects the outside. (I.E, Edward and Al are connected, because for a moment, they were one inside the Gate when Ed got his soul back ... consiquently, Al's body affects Ed's, however unnoticably, with Ed's need to sleep for example.)

So, if Trisha's soul was fully tranfered to an armor, she might remember, but if part of her was left in the Gate, she probably wouldn't, until there was an outside trigger. If she did lose her memory, it would probably be to a much greater extent than Al did, because like you said, she was in there much longer ... then again, she could be like Ed, and remember everything, because she doesn't have a body in the gate.
nightfireblazenightfireblaze on July 13th, 2006 08:37 pm (UTC)
I think what Ed saw was a bit curvy to be wrath, I thought when wrath was talking about taking Ed's limbs that he was that gatebaby we had a focus on durring that flashback.

In the movie Izumi was dead and inside the gate fine, she seemed to remember wrath being her's, so maybe memory is attached to the soul, and the mind excersizes these memories, while the body stores them?
Without storage things get lost easily, but they can be recovered if you know where to look, and you won't know where to look without some sort of clue, so your right with something having to be done with to get a full (partical?) memory recap.
It would have to be something else not a bit of blood spilling on her seal, because the blood spilt on Al's seal reminded him of that night which triggered the gate memories.

I think Trisha's entire soul would go because it has nothing to attach itself to inside the gate, while a part of Al stayed in because the body was still in there.
Still Naive, Not Photogenicsliefoxx on July 13th, 2006 09:02 pm (UTC)
What episode are you talking about? 'Cause I was thinking of gate baby!Wrath, but I must be forgetting something if Trisha wasn't there after all ...

Hmm ... but memory would be part of the mind, which is different from the soul. It was explained that because Al's body was still 'living', that his mind was able to 'speak' through the armor, because his soul was attatched to it, and all three were still linked.

I'm guessing that Izumi would recognize her baby, because her mind and soul were together, but if separated she probably wouldn't have ... that storage container of her body was lost when she died, so there would be nothing linking her mind and soul together. (Also, CoS was full of plot holes, so that's probably not the best example ~.^)

If Trisha's soul was attatched to an armor, she would have no body in the gate to hold the mind, so any memory would probably be 'leftovers', like what Sloth seemed to get. A trigger might return Trisha's full memory, because those memories would have to go somewhere.

Since her soul was inside the gate, should they retrieve it, it's possible that because she would have no body to hold the mind, Trisha would be starting with a clean slate, and the mindset of an infant. Again, those leftover memories would probably give her enough knowlage to talk and function, but not enough to fully remember who she is.

Thus crack ensues, and Trisha is semi-retarded, and the boys have to reteach her everything. ^^; They go on a quest for her memories, and cliche things happen. :3
nightfireblaze: Breadanightfireblaze on July 13th, 2006 09:47 pm (UTC)
The episode I'm talking about with what Ed sees is in the begining of the series, we see him reaching out to this shiny golden silloet of a woman with wavy hair.

CoS is still canon, guess we just have to interprit what it means oursevles.

Hm didn't think about the body being needed...if any of her soul was put into Sloth, who did survive being in that state before Dante came and fed her apparently, then she could borrow Sloths brain for use. But that would complicate things because there is no way you wouldn't be able to notice something else using your own mind. Sloth would probably see what armor!Trisha is putting into it their shared mind, and could easily report to Dante what the brothers were up to. Then again it could go both ways once our now semi-retard realizes that Sloth is telling Dante current events instead of that being a weird memory.
Unless one or both can't acess each others memories, of course.

XD *dies of crack*
Meet the Elric family;
the father, Hohenhime is a drifter who left his family because he was rotting to death, literally! Being alive for 400 years does that to a person, eh?
The mother, Trisha, a semi-retarded soul trapped inside a suit of armor. She was dead for a couple of years but that's not getting into this mothers way of making sure her children are safe, do I hear mother of the year?
The elder son, Edward, he's got no arms and only one leg, but luckily for him his neighbors can attach auto-mail on him so he can have independance of his own. Though last time he acted on his own he lost his brothers entire body and most of his limbs!
The younger brother, Alphonse, yet annother member of the Elric family whom's soul is encased in an empty suit of armor, don't worry folks he apparently hadn't caught the retard desiese like his mother when put into this state!
Still Naive, Not Photogenic: *snerk* Envysliefoxx on July 14th, 2006 12:18 am (UTC)
Alphonse catch retarded from Trisha ... -snerk-

Edward: "LOOK WHAT YOU DID YOU BASTARD. Look what our family turned in to!"

Hoho: "... I didn't trans-"


Since we're going into CoS ...

Alphonse was able to talk to Edward through the gate when he put part of his soul on that armor, but his body in Amestris had been asleep, and only woke when the effect wore off. I dunno ... -shrug-, maybe Al had been using a temporary seal, since Edward's had worked for long, but not Al's.

Anyway, that would mean, Trisha's soul could share a body, but one of them would have to be unconcious at a time. I think Sloth and Trisha sharing memories would only work if part of Trisha's soul was actually in Sloth, which I don't think could happen, since you pointed out earlier that Trisha's soul would have to be completely transferred because she has no body for part of the soul to stay with.

Besides, homunculus are creatures on their own, and Sloth is only based off Trisha, memories or no. I don't think Ed put part of Trisha's soul in Sloth when he gave her memories, unless you know otherwise ... then that changes a few things. :3 Sharing a soul yes, sharing a mind, no. ^^;

Since it's a fic we can gloss over the 'lack of mind' part. ♥
nightfireblaze: Stray Dognightfireblaze on July 14th, 2006 12:59 am (UTC)
Wan't to talk more about this on msn messanger if you got it? (this would go faster) *looks at your profile* I'll add you to my contacts list if that's okay?
Still Naive, Not Photogenic: Happysliefoxx on July 14th, 2006 04:21 am (UTC)
Mrr, that's fine. Do you have Yahoo! or AIM? 'Cause I'll have to redownload MSN if you don't have either of those ... ^^
nightfireblazenightfireblaze on July 14th, 2006 04:37 am (UTC)
I recently got Yahoo! so I'm not entierly sure of what I'm doing with it. (just downloaded Yahoo instant messanger...)
It's bloodravengirl@yahoo.com
Still Naive, Not Photogenicsliefoxx on July 15th, 2006 07:45 am (UTC)
:3 Sorry it took me so long to reply.

My Yahoo! is anotherfabrication@sbcglobal.net

^^ I just added you and sent you a message. I'll probably sign on later in the day. :P
(Deleted comment)
nightfireblaze: The Sinner Ednightfireblaze on July 14th, 2006 12:52 am (UTC)
They said Ed could put memories into Sloth because he was so determinded and willful or something like that? They said Tucker couldn't put a blank soul into his Nina doll because he didn't have the will or something. I forget exactly and would have to watch the episode again...

The creature came first and Ed was reaching for Trisha's soul he almost got there...Al went furthur into the gate so we could say he touched Trisha's soul and a small part went into the thing they created. (because we couldn't go by the manga where Al had his soul into that thing) If that is what we would want to put in.

Humoculi don't have souls of their own it said though. So like with Alter!Ed and Ed sharing mind and body so could Sloth and Trisha. Sloth would be like our Ed being in control of the body while Trisha can use part of the mind. I think if Trisha tried to take over the body she would die because the stones are powered by souls, get to close to the sun and you get burned I'd say. (we could make the part of the soul so small that it only does the nessicesities without interfearing/interacting with anything else)

What I wrote to reply to your other comment:
Since it's a fic we can gloss over the 'lack of mind' part. Or we could empitize it for even more crack. XP At least for the first few chapters. (if we were to write this out)

CoS:Al probably pre set a time based on how long the fight might take?

Forgot what I said about the entire soul going into the armor...nobody said a part of her soul didn't go into the thing, but no one said it did either. *shrugs*