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03 May 2004 @ 01:02 pm
Speculations: Sins, Archer, Roy.  
Here to discuss ep 30, but for the love of all that is holy please do not spoil me in your responses. I'm still ticked about being spoiled to ep 25, and I don't want to actually KNOW the identities of the other sins, I'm just speculating, and wish to speculate with others who may have theories. Not to sound rude or anything. ^_^

Sins' identities
So it's been speculated that Archer is a homunculus, and that he may be the resurrection of Hughes, since - well - they do resemble one another.
It's also been speculated that the Fuhrer is one as well, though there's been no proof either way, just general shouts of "I think he's one, too!"
It's been more or less stated that the wild child (henceforth referred to as "Moofy" since seventh_shadow has corrupted me) is one; we've even seen the location of his ouroborous seal.

That pretty much means one too many sins wandering around.

- Lust wants Greed out - we know this; she's said so, and Greed's sort of acting on his own anyway. Possibly Archer or Moofy is the 'new Greed'? Because if, at any given time, there are indeed seven of them, then there must have been an old Lust or an old Sloth, before Scar's brother's girl or Tricia were resurrected; those old sins would have been ousted at the creation of these new ones. Greed's the oldest (I believe) so it would stand to reason that he'd have to be 'cycled out'.
- The Fuhrer is not a sin. (Which I'm actually rather inclined to believe - his coloring's off. And maybe that's a silly reason, but all the other sins have been really freaking pale so far.)
- ... The Fuhrer is Envy? <- a little bit cracked, but possible.
- Moofy is not a sin, but an 'independent' homunculus. (Yet the sins seem to want him - to 'induct' him, perhaps? See first theory.)

What's up with Archer?
So the current popular theory is that Archer is a resurrected/homunculus version of Hughes. The only problem I have with this theory is that *someone* must have done the resurrection/created the homunculus. Granted, there are plenty of alchemists out there, some who might even have that knowledge - but we don't know for sure.

What we do know is that Roy was researching human alchemy shortly after the Ishvar massacre, when he decided to become Fuhrer. It's possible he may have his own theory/knowledge, and he certainly would have the motivation/desire to resurrect Hughes.

Excepting, of course, that Roy seems to have all his parts intact. So this is still a mystery ...

More about Roy...
I don't believe for an instant that he's going to "deal with" the Ishvarites as he's been ordered to. He'll go, and he'll take his staff, but I doubt highly that he would stage another massacre. This is the exact thing that he's trying to prevent from happening. If anything, I can only speculate that he'll ... well, honestly, I'm not entirely sure. I suppose I'm just saying that it seems a little strange. I can understand his obedience - this is a man who knows how to play his cards, after all; and I suspect he's gotten very good at putting on masks - but if he actually follows through with his orders ...

Unless, of course, he just doesn't care anymore - which may be part of his reaction to Hughes's death at all.

FireDreamer: kidding(lolana)chilayse on May 3rd, 2004 10:10 am (UTC)
Soo...lessee if I got this here...you post..but don't actually want a response? I don't get it...0.o
Jen: goodstarlightstorm on May 3rd, 2004 10:16 am (UTC)
I meant that I don't want people who've read ahead in the manga saying things like, 'Oh, but that can't be because blahblah happens but that hasn't happened in the anime yet', or 'so-and-so can't be Pride or Wrath because we find out that so-and-so *really* is in the manga'.

I don't follow the manga, and I don't want to know what happens before it actually does. ^^;
(no subject) - chilayse on May 3rd, 2004 11:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
We are all fuzzy robots.: kami no daikohshamakaioh on May 3rd, 2004 10:20 am (UTC)
Oh I hope you're right about Roy not wanting to massacre Ishval anymore -- they really don't deserve it ;_;

And I agree with you that the Fuhrer is not a Sin, and furthermore I do not believe that he is a homunculus. I don't have a good reason, except that Sloth sure isn't keen on him overhearing her telephone conversations. And if he was one of them, surely she wouldn't mind?

And I love the name Moofy.
Tashatasha_mac on May 3rd, 2004 10:51 am (UTC)
About Archer, unless he's a reeeeally great actor, he looked surprised with everything going on in that episode. He may just be a freak. But if he is resurrected-Hughes (oh God please let that not be true), I highly doubt Roy did the dirty deed. He said in episode 25 that he found himself trying to remember his theory, then acted like he felt disgusted that he tried to. So, I doubt he did anything like that.

I don't think Roy'll take care of the Ishbal people either, but he is rather focused on taking care of Scar. After all, he doesn't know about him and the Elrics reaching some kind of unspoken truce, so he may think Scar's still after them. Also, Scar is a wanted criminal. He may just roll into town, say "gimme that guy", then go on his merry way.
Tashatasha_mac on May 3rd, 2004 10:53 am (UTC)
Oh, not to mention, Scar may know where a Philosopher's Stone is to be had. So maybe Roy wants Scar to get the stone.
goat_sangoat_san on May 3rd, 2004 11:06 am (UTC)
i dont think there are multiple of the same sins, i just think they were made somewhat recently (of the history of time).

the Fuhrer might be a sin, but i wont say for sure. She just might not want anyone to hear her phone conversations.

archer might be a sin, be he isn't the resurrected hughes, he has a good reputation for wanting another war, and you wouldn't get something like that overnight.

and yeah, roy might try to capture scar, but he will be really hesitant on destroying the village. (i wish roy will become the fuhrer later on so he can make all the woman wear mini-skirts)
Rune Ariala: dinnertimeruneariala on May 3rd, 2004 07:46 pm (UTC)
archer might be a sin, be he isn't the resurrected hughes, he has a good reputation for wanting another war, and you wouldn't get something like that overnight.

I totally agree with you about that. Everyone seems to know or have heard of Archer, and they equate him with a warmonger. Considering that it's been, at *most*, a month since Hughes died when he appears in the anime, I doubt he could get such a reputation that quickly.

The Fuhrer may be a Sin, but considering how the Sins don't necessarily get along together, perhaps he sides with the Greed camp? Does anyone else get the feeling that it's almost like the petulant children against the older, wiser "adults"? Uh, where not going to bed ends in certain, messy death?
brosef stalin, leader of the broletariat.: I'm not crazy. I'm just a little unwell.arisato on May 3rd, 2004 11:32 am (UTC)
Just a couple of jot notes:

-Not cracked! I think the Fuhrer in South City is Envy in disguise, because in the preview he managed to get his mitts on "Moofy" (I love it, let's buy him a collar. :3) But I think there is a real Fuhrer, we see him talking to Roy, don't we? And it only stands to reason that he can't be in both Central and South City at once. Just a thought.
-I'm still sketchy on the Archer as Pride theory. I don't know, maybe the radiation of the computer screen is addling my brain, but I just don't see it. I mean, yes, he looked like Hughes in one panel, but as far as I can tell, there's some distinction afterwards.
-"Moofy Not A Sin" theory very good, if in fact the heavens fall down on my head and Archer is Pride, that will most definately be the case. IMHO, anyway. Or maybe (and this may just be me going crazy, here) Moofy ends up merging with Envy, and then we have Envoofy, and everything's all gone to hell.
-I don't think Roy would resurrect Hughes, he's seen firsthand of the results of Human Transmutation in Ed and Al. I think if he'd ever try to ressurect Hughes, he'd wait til they found the Philosopher's Stone. Takes the danger clean right out of there!
-I hope hope hope hope Roy doesn't end up causing more death and destruction. I'm worried, because he said that he'd have to mow down anyone in their way if there was any resistance, and you know there will be resistance. To be honest I'm more mortally afraid that Scar will end up killing Roy. I have that unsettling "DOOM" feeling in my stomach.
(Anonymous) on May 3rd, 2004 07:00 pm (UTC)
*twitches nervously*
I have the oddest feeling (this might just be me and my obsession with the psychology of war speaking) that if Roy actually does kill anymore Ishbal people in cold blood as he's been instructed to, his head might not be able to handle it. He's done it before and it nearly destroyed him inside out. And these sort of cause and effect things have a way of recurring... I don't think he'd risk having that guilt infesting his soul again...
Re: *twitches nervously* - arisato on May 3rd, 2004 07:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
bloody mary on the rocks: Kimblee loves Azkabanjunemermaid on May 3rd, 2004 11:33 am (UTC)
I admit Archer does look a bit like Hughes, but then again Arakawa's artistic style manages to produce a lot of very similar looking people *L*
I really doubt he's that freshly minted of a homunculus if he is one, but we've clearly got proof that the military and the existance of (at least some) homunculus is linked so I wouldnt write off that he is one alltogether, I just dont think he's from Hughes.
I of course, could be very wrong as even the manga hasnt cleared that up at all.
IMO theres no way in hell Roy would ever try to bring Hughes back, or anyone back for that matter, so I dont think he'd be the cause for his appearance either.
I dont think the wild child is a Sin, but I assume there are other homunculus that arent in the group of the Sins. I think the Sins are probally a sub-group all with a common factor to their revival/birth. My theory would be they've all been ressurected by someone with the Elric bloodline, but since Greed we know, is OLD, it would have to be -anyone- with Elric blood not just their father like a lot of people have been guessing.
I dunno tho!
Hime D. ~創世の錬金術師~: ed - what the...?!?!!hime1999 on May 3rd, 2004 11:48 am (UTC)
Very OT, but I just can't resist.... Nice icon. That was just what I first thought when I first saw Kimblee.
Re: OT - junemermaid on May 3rd, 2004 11:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: OT - bloodyeden on May 3rd, 2004 12:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kiena: Envy - Chaotic Evilkiena_tesedale on May 3rd, 2004 11:38 am (UTC)
I personally doubt that Archer is Hughes resurrected - Archer already has a reputation and a high(-ish) position in the military (which could be gotten around by Sloth and/or the Fuhrer [if he's on the Sins' side], admittedly). But an actual reputation would take longer to create - if people were to talk about him too often, too fast, it would come off as very fake - and they have to know they have enemies in the military. 'Course, I could be analyzing this too much - shows have been known to do less convincing things, anyway.

And I'm not certain that Moofy is a Sin, either - but I haven't seen episode 30 in English yet. But perhaps all homunculus have a seal? That would make sense to me, since Al and Barry both have seals as spirit armor, and that's a similar issue. Did they actually say in episode 30 that Moofy is a Sin?

Just a few thoughts...
She and her Catwednesday_tea on May 3rd, 2004 11:52 am (UTC)
Excepting, of course, that Roy seems to have all his parts intact.


Anyways, I don't know what the shit's going on. I just sort of watch in a blind stupor and hope that my brain retains everything.
avianthropy on May 3rd, 2004 12:36 pm (UTC)
Oh good, I'm not the only one that saw the potential dirtiness of that sentence. XD

I usually have to watch an episode like this twice in order to pick up most of the important things. After the first time through I just go, "Wow. That was great. Now what all happened?"
bloodyeden on May 3rd, 2004 12:14 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure about the Fuhrer being a sin now... if he doesn't, maybe Moofy is the seventh sin... but I'd rather think that Moofy is an independant homunculus (or maybe the new Greed, as some of you have already said...), now I don't know if he'll side up with the Sins or with Ed-tachi... the preview didn't say enough X_X; must... see... episode 31...
Jenstarlightstorm on May 3rd, 2004 01:32 pm (UTC)
And a thought just hit me ...
Greed did say that Moofy was 'a homunculus that can use alchemy, just like me' - could be I'm reading too much into it, but if they've got the same abilities ...
(no subject) - lelldorin on May 3rd, 2004 05:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Ananomoreprinces on May 3rd, 2004 12:18 pm (UTC)
I hope someone other than me noticed "Moofy" with Envy grinning and looking mighty evil in the op. I didn't notice it before but with the kid being such a huge part fo the plot now, I couldn't NOT notice him looking sadistic and mean.
bloodyeden on May 3rd, 2004 12:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, we saw him... He's probably gonna turn evil... The poor thing ;___;
(no subject) - niwakaame on May 3rd, 2004 10:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Taylestayles on May 3rd, 2004 01:26 pm (UTC)
The way I understood that little scene with Greed, Moofy IS a homunculus, but ISN'T a sin. He says Pride (whoever that may be) was looking for 'them' (the Elrics, I believe) and the way he phrased it made it sound like Pride was working with Lust et al. Moofy turned up on the island but if anything tried to avoid the Elrics. He didn't show himself until Izumi arrived.

Meaning Pride could be Archer (he's got the complexion for a sin, lol) or the Fuhrer, or pretty much anyone ><; Still, Envy referred to Sloth as the youngest of the sins, which doesn't make sense if Archer is Hughes. Confused? I am.

Then there's the theory that Moofy isn't a sin... yet. He is prolly headed for evildom, let's face it. I don't want him to go to the dark side (he's so CUTE!) but if the op is any indication, I expect Envy to be corrupting the poor brat next episode ;.;

Roy nearly topped himself all those years ago as the result of harming innocents. Unless Hughes' death has really pushed him over the edge, I don't see him doing it again any time soon. I'm waiting for the books Sciezka (or however you spell bookworm-lady's name) gave Roy to come into play. Come on Mustang, figure it out already!

And I'm done rambling. ^^;
filling spatial gaps with prime value: by yuzu_chan - smile or get hurtamai_unmei on May 3rd, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC)
The way I understood that little scene with Greed, Moofy IS a homunculus, but ISN'T a sin.

That's the way I understood it as well.

That is, every Sin is a homunculus, but not every homunculus is a Sin. The "Sin" designation may be something not necessarily designated by Nature/the Truth/whatever you want to call it, but by something or someone else.

Roy nearly topped himself all those years ago as the result of harming innocents. Unless Hughes' death has really pushed him over the edge, I don't see him doing it again any time soon.

Oh yeah, I agree. Roy has had ulterior motives from the beginning; why would he start taking orders blindly now? He's lost his best friend and I think Roy Mustang is keeping his suspicions undercover to get to the truth.
seventh_shadow on May 3rd, 2004 03:44 pm (UTC)
All I have to say is, you know how Archer is really scarily pale? Go watch episode 25, towards the end. I swear, that's him at the.. 'farewell ceremony', so to speak. And, Roy obviously didn't try anything.. Gracia is still in one piece so uh.. I don't think he is one. 'Cuz who else would have done it? Scheizka doesn't know alchemy and she's the only one I can think of. *shrugs* I don't like Archer anyway, I hope he dies. He took Moofy *shakes fist*

And.. Keff, Moofy loves all of you, but he belongs to me >>;.
une fille déchaussée: where's the tp?adespota on May 3rd, 2004 04:29 pm (UTC)
"but all the other sins have been really freaking pale so far

Greed is tan.
skeptisch: brain = dead!  :Dlelldorin on May 3rd, 2004 05:53 pm (UTC)
But then, if we assume it wasn't a translation error, he's also older than the others by quite a bit of time, so maybe their skin darkens with time?

It also might be that the other sins just don't spend enough time outside... Hell, if Archer is any indication (assuming he's not a homunculus) regular humans can be disturbingly pale too.
(no subject) - junemermaid on May 3rd, 2004 08:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)