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23 March 2006 @ 02:08 pm
Rank Question :P  
Question:

In FMA, how do the military rankings succeed?

'Cause I was doing some looking, and either I've memorized character's titles wrong, or FMA just messed with the rankings wrong ... for example:

Hewes outranked Mustang by one 'level', 'Major' over Colonel. But what I was reading, was that the Colonel title actually outranks 'major' twice, Lieutenant Colonel being inbetween ... another example:

'Furher' is a title held in Germany, holding no real comparison to say ... 'General', which is the highest American ranking ... and I dunno if Archer was called 'Brigadier' or 'Brigadier General', because if taken literally, each holds different rankings in American and British offices, so that would make Archer have an extremely high rank or intermediate (But either way, it outranks Colonel ;_;), but that difference is by a few levels, so it matters ...

And I think a few titles were mixed between Navel and Army rankings, so that further confuses me. O.O

So! Either I'm wrong, the writer of FMA is wrong, or the translators are wrong, because I'm sure Japanese rankings would differ from the American, German, AND British subsequence too, which doesn't help me, but I'd like to point out that Fullmetal Alchemist DOESN'T take place ANYWHERE near Japan, no matter how thoroughly fangirls have Alphonse say 'niisan', and Edward call Colonel Mustang 'Taisa'. >.<

This urks me greatly.

Can you help me? *WIBBLE* O.O
 
 
(no subject) - helcatari on March 23rd, 2006 06:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Still Naive, Not Photogenicsliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:25 pm (UTC)
Thank you! ^^
Wolfsjunges: BS6: Beautifuldriftwoodwings on March 23rd, 2006 06:56 pm (UTC)
My father and I had this conversation years ago when I was writing blue sub 6 fan fiction...

._.

My brain exploded shortly there after.
低燃費って何? CVTって何なの?: FMA: Panda 8Dlady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 07:36 pm (UTC)
BLUE SUB FANFIC?! WHERE?! ;_; no one loves teh blue sub.
(no subject) - driftwoodwings on March 23rd, 2006 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
angsty lemon ukewabisuke on March 23rd, 2006 07:00 pm (UTC)
I made this a long time ago. Should help. :)

Still Naive, Not Photogenic: Absolute Joysliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:19 pm (UTC)
::saves::

Thank you! :P
(no subject) - theydontloveyou on March 23rd, 2006 07:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wabisuke on March 23rd, 2006 08:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Tiny Destroyer of Humankindsquirrelarmy on March 23rd, 2006 07:10 pm (UTC)
Yes, Fullmetal Alchemist doesn't take place anywhere near Japan. It takes place in Amestris. Another world entirely. Therefore, the rankings are solely up to the mangaka, though I imagine she borrowed rankings from various countries (mainly Western) in doing so.

As for the "niisan" and "taisa" end of things -- I don't think that's an attempt to imply that FMA takes place in Japan, but rather attempting to stick closer to the original story. I'm not sure about "taisa", but I know that translating "niisan" literally into English -- as "Brother" -- sounds strange, considering that Western culture does not have younger siblings address older siblings by their title.
Still Naive, Not Photogenic: God Divided by Zerosliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:19 pm (UTC)
Considering FMA is strongly mixed with western culture, and not eastern (Minus Roy & Ling), using those terms comes off as fangirlish and amature.

Why use Japanese words when they can be interpretted directly?

('Taisa' litterally means 'colonel' BTW)

^^ As for the rankings ... I figured she had messed with them ... *tweaks out from confusion*
(no subject) - squirrelarmy on March 23rd, 2006 07:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 07:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - squirrelarmy on March 23rd, 2006 08:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wabisuke on March 23rd, 2006 08:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - squirrelarmy on March 23rd, 2006 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sliefoxx on March 24th, 2006 06:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - propaganda_live on March 23rd, 2006 07:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wabisuke on March 23rd, 2006 08:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - catystorm on March 23rd, 2006 07:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sliefoxx on March 23rd, 2006 07:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - catystorm on March 23rd, 2006 08:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - reikah on March 23rd, 2006 09:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
低燃費って何? CVTって何なの?lady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 07:33 pm (UTC)
Strangely enough, a Major (which is enlisted here) out ranks a Lieutenant (Which is comissioned here) so I would suspect

Private - Lieutenant - First Lieutenant - Second Lieutenant - Major - Lieutenant Colonel - Colonel - a rank somewhere here - Brigader General - some ranks here - Fuhrer

In America, 4 star general is the highest. A general is below a 4 star general.
honeywellagent_honeywell on March 23rd, 2006 07:59 pm (UTC)
Actually, it's five stars but only five people in the history of the country have ever gotten that high, including Gen. Douglas MacAurthur.

Brigadier General, Major General, Lieutenant General, General, General of the Army.
(no subject) - lady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - agent_honeywell on March 23rd, 2006 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 09:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - agent_honeywell on March 23rd, 2006 09:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lady_mercury on March 23rd, 2006 11:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
lupus_leorio on March 23rd, 2006 09:09 pm (UTC)
Kalika Maxwellkalikamaxwell on March 23rd, 2006 09:16 pm (UTC)
I'm studying in translation and considering what we're taught, I still support the use of 'niisan'. It's not about what the word means literally, it's about what it conveys, the connotation. There is no commonly used word in English that can be describe as a term of respect for your older brother. It's a different reality. It's always better to use all English of course, but using brother seems to be a case of meaning lost in translation. In this situation, I consider the use of 'niisan' alright, if not ideal, because its meaning is widely known by the target audience. 'Taisa' on the other hand does have a perfect equivalent in English, so obviously that equivalent should be used.

I'm wondering if I should ask my teacher about this, see if I'm making sense here or if I'm totally missing the boat.
Ipityipitydaf00l on March 23rd, 2006 09:50 pm (UTC)
I think you are on the right track, and I also have to agree with catystorm about how they will throw in random English words in the Japanese language.

Most of the time they use those terms because it sounds "cool". Or so I've been told by a few that are currently living in that country. That probably isn't the only reason, but sometimes certain words just work better in the original language than trying to translate it to another.

Which is part of the reason why we have a vast mixture of words from various languages if you really want to dig that deep.

(The only thing I don't like? The times I will be writing words in English and accidently use the spelling for it in another language. Especially, when it's such a close spelling you don't realize it at first.)
(no subject) - kalikamaxwell on March 23rd, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ipitydaf00l on March 23rd, 2006 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on March 24th, 2006 02:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ipitydaf00l on March 24th, 2006 02:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
...stuff and things.: ...yeahdeuceloosely on March 24th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC)
I've come to the conclusion that, anime-wise, the country they all live in is called Armestis (sp?)...a fictional place. It's quite likely it is a conglomerate of elements from different countries. Remember that London was on the other side of the Gate, not Germany or Japan, even though they don't drive Japanese cars or eat German food in Armestis.

...

I'm only confusing matters more, eh?
reversing the polarity of the neutron flowshinraisei on March 24th, 2006 02:04 am (UTC)
Military dictatorship btw

'Furher' is a title held in Germany, holding no real comparison to say ... 'General', which is the highest American ranking ... and I dunno if Archer was called 'Brigadier' or 'Brigadier General', because if taken literally, each holds different rankings in American and British offices, so that would make Archer have an extremely high rank or intermediate (But either way, it outranks Colonel ;_;), but that difference is by a few levels, so it matters ...


Amestris is a Military Dictatorship. The Fuhrer is the top man in the military and is the ruler of the country. In no way is the Amestris Military ranking system the same as the British or American ones nor Japanese ones. HOWEVER, the naming of the ranks are still the same.

BTW, in the English ver of the manga, Fuhrer is changed to President...which makes no sense since this is a Military Dictatorship (though politically speaking he is what people in some countries consider the "President"). But then again, the last fellow to hold the title of "Fuhrer" killed 6 million and initiated a World War.

FMA takes place on a "alternate" Earth if you will. Amestris can be seen as the "Europe" of the FMA Earth too. Where'd "It takes place in Japan" come from? o_O; (And he does say nii-san as Ed says Taisa etc., the series is written in Japanese so Japanese terminology is present...unless, wait, we're speaking about fanfics...?)

There's an article on the rankings on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Military_characters_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist#Military_Ranks

Which basically show the order of power so to speak.

Also, I don't think Arakawa based Amestris' miltary ranking system on just one country's military but various militaries and organized it to how she felt it would work with her manga.

And it's Hughes not Hewes. ;)
On that note, Hughes never outranked Roy, if he had, that would've killed the whole "I will support from below" thing. When we met him in the manga, he was a Lt. Colonel and Roy was a Colonel---Hughes was ranked lower than Roy. A Major in the Amestris military is where National Alchemists are booted to but is lower than Colonel and Lt Colonel as well as Lieutenant (1st and 2nd).

Archer was also a Lt Colonel...unless he got promoted in the anime to Brigadier General and I just completely forgot. But Brigadier General in FMA is two rankings up a Colonel rank as we are told when Hughes is promoted posthumous to Brigadier General for his dying in line of duty and services to the military.

o.o
reversing the polarity of the neutron flowshinraisei on March 24th, 2006 02:18 am (UTC)
Re: Military dictatorship btw
Ahaha...whoops....

I said "A Major in the Amestris military is where National Alchemists are booted to but is lower than Colonel and Lt Colonel as well as Lieutenant (1st and 2nd).'

Lieutenants are ranked lower than Majors. XD;
Re: Military dictatorship btw - ipitydaf00l on March 24th, 2006 02:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - shinraisei on March 24th, 2006 03:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - ipitydaf00l on March 24th, 2006 03:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - jalendavi_lady on March 24th, 2006 03:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - ipitydaf00l on March 24th, 2006 03:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - sliefoxx on March 24th, 2006 07:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - x_reggg on March 24th, 2006 09:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - shinraisei on March 24th, 2006 10:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Military dictatorship btw - sliefoxx on March 24th, 2006 06:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(kenja no) Is(h)ischimaere on March 24th, 2006 11:05 am (UTC)
what does daisoutou mean literally? Surely not Führer, I mean why use only English titles and then suddenly a German one?! And I remember in the anime at least they wrote in letters "president" *shrugs* (all the writing was English, funny).
And hey, the anime makes that world also a bit more "Japanese" when Ed eats with sticks etc. ;)