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18 January 2006 @ 09:56 pm
Fullmetal Alchemist movie rant (Spoilers)  
Wow, am I insulted. For HALF of the movie, all everyone did was insult the Jews. I'm Jewish my self so I take this as an insult. I understand it fits with the time period and all, but come on, it's anime. Does racism(sp?) really needed to be involved in it? They also make it seem like Jews and gypsies are the same when they're not. I really find this insulting. If you wish to flame you may do so.
 
 
Current Mood: annoyedannoyed
Current Music: Hola Back Girl-Gwen Stefani
 
 
Danil_envyxedward_l on January 19th, 2006 03:00 am (UTC)
Well, look at it this way:

You said yourself it's an anime. I'll be saying 'it's just an anime'. Try not to take offense, that's just how they made the movie. ^^
istealboyswings on January 19th, 2006 03:04 am (UTC)
No flaming. There was another conversation a little like this, but about how they portrayed Hitler in such an easy-going fashion.

Anyways, I'm part German-Jewish, and although I wasn't insulted perse, I can see how it might have been insulting. But overall it was a good plot, don't you think?

(I was moer insulted by the ending. How could they do that to Winry?!! Gah! *frustration*)
eurogabbyeurogabby on January 19th, 2006 06:30 am (UTC)
I so agree with you.... thats why we read the manga.
(no subject) - cocacat15 on January 19th, 2006 03:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
Ragweed the Dwergiragweedtd on January 19th, 2006 03:10 am (UTC)
Part of what makes "Fullmetal Alchemist" what it is is the fact that even though 'it's anime' it doesn't shy away from religious and moral topics.

It didn't 'insult' Jews. It portrayed what actually happened, to a degree. And it never said all Jews are gypsies so I don't know where you got that from. Hitler didn't just discriminate against the Jewish, he discriminated against homosexuals, mentally challenged people and so forth.

So they didn't portray Hitler as an evil supervillian. Well guess what, at the time, he wasn't. He was voted into power. I found it rather nice that they didn't stereotype him that way. Now, don't get me wrong, he was a horrible man who didn't horrible, terrific things, but at the time, he was a hero to most of the German people. They made him seem human because he was human. So what?

Seriously? It sounds like you're making a big fuss over nothing. The issuse is tender, no doubt. But I don't really see this 'insult' that you're talking about. If you'd like to expand, please do so...
Ipityipitydaf00l on January 19th, 2006 03:14 am (UTC)
I have discovered that a lot of things, anime, comics, etc. Try to use things as teaching examples. When you speak of the time period. Yes, that's what happened at that time period. If they didn't have the characters act the way they did...it wouldn't fit into the story. People were/and still are racist. Sad thing is that is how it is for some people.

The reason why I say teaching examples is because many valuable lessons can be learned if you look. For example and I'm just going off of one that I recently discussed with someone else. (Yes, I know this is a FMA fandom, but it goes with my comment.)

X-men is full of racism. Normal people hate mutants, most mutants hate normal people. For various reasons. If you really start to read into the story you realize that the strongest message portrayed is that everyone is different, no one is the same. It talks about how racism is wrong. (I could go on and on about this subject and set examples, but I would rather try to cut this as short as possible.)

As far as you getting offended by the movie. I'm sorry. It's like watching The Diary of Anne Frank and getting insulted. It happened, it's an actual fact, and it's shown to show us the errors that others have made in hopes that others won't follow that same path. History will always repeat itself unless we learn from our mistakes.

No, I'm not flaming you, I'm not even sure if this comment can be considered a flame. And I would rather not get thousands of comments because I voice an opinion.
Ragweed the Dwergi: Perfect Whiteragweedtd on January 19th, 2006 03:17 am (UTC)
Thank you. You're comment just resorted some of my faith in people.
(no subject) - ipitydaf00l on January 19th, 2006 03:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
friedbrain on January 19th, 2006 03:30 am (UTC)
I wrote this on another board, and I warn you all, the overall tone is a bit ranty. But here's some more thoughts on the movie, and why I think THAT particular time period was used (and sadly, used accurately so):

--------------------

I'm not encoding this in any special way, because frankly, if you're in the "movie" folder, I'm going to assume that you're expecting to read about spoliers from the entire series, for both anime and manga. SO BE WARNED: SPOLIERS ABOUND.

I finally got the see the movie today, though, as far as the series goes I've only seen as far as [as] has aired. That said, I've read plenty of spoilers about the series, and, have read all the manga to date.

That said, what first drew me to the series (and lucky me, at this point [as] was reairing season 1 like, every night) and still has be utterly captivated is that this fictional work is SO RELEVANT to the changing world. Like, after seeing the first few episodes, I went online and was not suprised to learn that this is a post-2001 work. I wasn't sure at first because of the general lag in the time that it takes for something to take off in Japan and then become mainstream here in the US. But, [as] seems to be closing in on that gap.

But here the thing. I don't think Arakwa-senesi was trying to be all GNN-conspiracy theorist. I think FMA, when looking at the canon as a whole, makes some very poignant, and perhaps unconfortable, points. While I can't speak about Japanese society, I can about American. So here it goes:

We live in a disposeable socitey. This is gotten so extreme that people regard other people with such little respect, so little compassion, that we are all growing increasingly disconnected. For the majority of Americans, if it does not directly affect them, it doesn't matter. Capitolism at it's extreme can also be looked at this way: as long as the profit margin is at it's greatest, it doesn't matter who gets screwed. So what did Arakwa-senesi do? She puts the reader in the shoes of two very scared, lost little boys. Frankly, despite my love for the manga, the anime has a stronger "hook" (film term). We buy into the characters at the beginning of the anime. Being introduced to angsty!Ed and angsty!Al at the beginning of the manga, well, I don't know that I would have cared so much. Eh, you're grown, build a bridge and get over your issues, right? But I digress. Anyways, throughout the story Arakwa-senesi does some spectacular character developement and the reader is taken with these characters. These are almost our children, we've watched them grow and change, and we want the best for them. To be happy. To live well.

So fast forward to the end of the movie, moive!ed and movie!al reunited in the truck driven by alter!scar. Moive!ed bascially says to movie!al that "they can't control what is going to happen, but they have to take responsibility for it". Same as he told movie!al when al was falling to pieces over the gate. "you didn't intend for this to happen, but we have to fix it" or something to that effect. We can't control what happens externally to us, but maybe, just maybe, if more people in our world were to step up and take respoinsibilty for all the nonsense going on, things would be better. What time in our history does she choose to use to make this point? THE *freaking* HOLOCAUST. We, the readers, all know what's going to happen in germany. We know the horrors ahead. What more dramatic example of people looking the other way could she have drawn upon?

So, that's why I think that time period was used, because this work is much too deep, much too well-researched, and much too revelant for Fullmetal Alchemist to just be boiled down to *oh that's a wacked conspiracy theory* shite.
friedbrain on January 19th, 2006 03:38 am (UTC)
and, on the "c'mon, it's 'just anime' line of thought" . . . please look into watching "barefoot gen" and "grave of the fireflies". "ipitydaF00l" is dead on about teaching examples.

That said, I don't doubt that it hurts you to see what was done to your ancestors (my husband's grandmother was lucky enough to escape Berlin just after crystalnacht), but if you haven't done much reading on what germany was like during that time, look into it. "Maus" is an easy introduction, in the sense that it is a graphic novel, but no less heartwretching . . . "Night" by Elie Wisel, "Treblinka", and on an easier reading level "Number the Stars". There was also a sequel-so-to-speak after "The Diary of Anne Frank", it was by Miep (sp? she was the secetary who helped the Frank family hide). That book gives much insight into the general climate of Germany in the late 30's and early 40's, and that is more of what is dealt with in the FMA movie. Remember, at that point in time, the atrocites are only beginning. And, as history demonstrates, even after they begin, most poeple look the other way.
(no subject) - friedbrain on January 19th, 2006 03:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on January 19th, 2006 06:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - friedbrain on January 19th, 2006 01:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ipitydaf00l on January 19th, 2006 06:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Arakawa did not write the movie - momma_gem on January 19th, 2006 07:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Arakawa did not write the movie - friedbrain on January 19th, 2006 07:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Arakawa did not write the movie - kaitou_marina on January 19th, 2006 08:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
redrose999redrose999 on January 19th, 2006 03:48 am (UTC)
I am sorry you were insulted.
I am very sorry you were insulted. But I will say they were trying to be realistic on the matter. I have a friend whose father grew up in Nazi Germany and lived up wind of Auschwitz. What folks don't realize the German citizens he was raised around had a great deal of apathy about the situation and lived in denial of it. He often told us how he saw general Patton and the Russian Army fought the Nazi's and liberates the village he grew up in. Went they took the civilians of the Village to the camps to see the bodies of the camp victims, they told the soldiers they only saw Dogs, not humans. It pained John to tell us this and I found it unbelievable, but he was there, he was taken to the camps and watched the grown ups around him behave this way. I think in FMA they were trying to remind people this can happen again and how feelings of distrust and frustration of any social group can turn into apathy, and eventually a bind eye to evils done to them.

Its wrong.

He also watched the folks in his village with the Nazi's hang a priest in his own church who objected to the concentration camps.

They were very poor where he lived and the folks had no food, the Nazi's just gave them a scapegoat.

People are horrid creatures some times. John took some horrid images to the grave with him.

But I understand your feelings, FMA is a fantasy and sometimes it would b
e nice to see just that, a fun fantasy.
bomb dot com: fma : ed : forget alchemyglass_houses on January 19th, 2006 04:11 am (UTC)
They also make it seem like Jews and gypsies are the same when they're not.

Uh? When did they do that?

I think you are too sensitive..
keke eats babies!bestwifeband on January 19th, 2006 04:24 am (UTC)
i think that they would be skipping out on history, i mean yah, it was a bad time. but what is done is done, and you can't dimiss that fact and froget it.

i am not relious though, and think that that time period is really instreisng to learn about. so it probally all depends on the person.

ririshinobi_genius on January 19th, 2006 04:26 am (UTC)
I think that the whole point of the movie was to establish just how wrong rascism and xenophobia is. And for that to happen, a group of people have to be insulted and discriminated against. And anti-semitism was a predominate trait of the time period... I truly believe that the script writers did not mean any offense.
Cola: Annoyedekoko on January 19th, 2006 04:55 am (UTC)
Uhhh, that's sort of like reading a text book and being offended, isn't it? Totally not insulting you, but, y'know... It's just retelling things how they WERE back then; people's negative opinions and all.
Mari: Falling Behind - angiechowkaitou_marina on January 19th, 2006 06:20 am (UTC)
I think you may have missed the point of the movie.

Did you watch all the way through to the end? Where Ed gives a lovely speech that says basically that "discrimination is bad?" Everyone lives, laughs, loves and dies all the same. That was the message the movie was trying to get across. How could they have gotten this message across without showing the hate in the first place? Sometimes you have to know the bad before you can know the good. Sometimes you have to know wrong before you can know right. There has to be darkness for light to shine. Are you saying they should have whitewashed the fact that the Nazis were hideously hateful to the Jewish people? Should they have doctored it up, covered it up? Made it into a Disney movie? Would that have been fair to make the Nazis seem less awful than they were? Would that have been respectful?

Also, I don't understand why you're offended by Jews and the "gypsies" being compared. The Jews and the Roma are both peoples who bleed at the hands of the Nazis. Somehow, I'd hope that would make you empathize with them. Instead, you seem to be having an "eww, no, they're different from me!" reaction. They're human beings too. I honestly think you just entirely missed the point.
Mari: Not God Drunk! - kebiconskaitou_marina on January 19th, 2006 07:49 am (UTC)
*bled
(no subject) - chrysa on January 19th, 2006 09:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
eldarwannabe: Ed Red & Blackeldarwannabe on January 19th, 2006 07:44 am (UTC)
I'm Jewish myself, so I can see where you're coming from, but there are some things you have to consider before taking offense.

First, at the time the movie takes place Germany wanted a scapegoat for their loss in WWI. Hitler chose to blame the Jews, who had been persecuted for centuries, so it wasn't a brand new concept to Germany.

Secondly, Gypsies were persecuted as well as Jews during WWII. The Nazi's also persecuted Protestants, homosexuals, handicapped people, and people with low IQ's. The movie didn't equate Jews and Gypsies, it just portrayed the way that people thought at the time. Don't be insulted by being compared to any of them.

Lastly, the movie never tried to portray the Nazi thought process in a positive light. In fact the movie uses the Nazi's as the "bad guys" making everything they say automatically wrong.

Believe me, I can understand what you're thinking. I also found myself shocked when I watched it for the first time. But insulted may be a strong feeling when talking about this movie. I found myself pleasantly surprised by the historical accuracies in the movie. The fact that it's anime shouldn't hold it back from using all possible tools to making a great story, and I feel like the insults and anger of the Germans in only served to enhance the message of the movie.

Just think about it for a while, you might change your mind.
Hime D. ~創世の錬金術師~: Ed - Angryhime1999 on January 19th, 2006 07:46 am (UTC)
They also make it seem like Jews and gypsies are the same when they're not. I really find this insulting.

So basically you don't want to be compare to 'gypsies' because you're not the same with them? Because you're more like 'everyone'? I really find this insulting. Why can't racism be involved in the movie? They did it with the anime series. How can you handle the Amestrisians insulting the Ishvarites but can't handle the Germans insulting the Jews?
Captain Chrismyuutsuuman on January 19th, 2006 12:27 pm (UTC)
Because when it comes to the movie, all logic escapes in justified reasoning for bashing it. :) Nothing but "omg bones r teh sux0rz!!! >:O"
(no subject) - corinn on January 19th, 2006 05:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
puloy^elbi: seriouskamuro_ishigami on January 20th, 2006 03:37 am (UTC)
Although much has already been said about the topic, I feel the need to share my own ideas. Most have us have the same concepts in mind but I just want to share my own so please bear with me.

I sympathize with you, hime-san, because I know that with some Jews the memories of the past persecutions, and even present, are still very much fresh. I knew a few who have developed this hyper-sensitivity to anti-Semitic comments, actions and ideas. Their first reactions to the mere mention of Jewish mistreatment are very much like yours. But please try to overcome that and see beyond film of racial defense to what was plausibly intended by the creators. It is very evident that there is no intention to attack the Jews. As some have already mentioned, the gravity of the anti-non'Aryan' feelings have to be shown to the viewers for them to actually grasp the fullness of a* point to be driven: racial discrimination is BAD, EVIL!! So please transcend your defenses and enjoy the movie more..neh?

QUOTE: "They also make it seem like Jews and gypsies are the same when they're not."
With this statement you might make other people think that you are a hypocrite. You go spouting against anti-Semitism yet with that tactless statement you are like saying "How dare they liken us to gypsies!" The tone you used is quite too harsh for a simple correction to a mistake of categorization. You were like screaming, "PREJUDICE!!" If I got this wrong, then I ask for forgiveness. If not, please think that over.
But just for historical background, Jews and gypsies were essentially the same for the Nazis. There propaganda was the upliftment of the Aryan race. The aggressive claiming of was is 'rightfully' theirs as being the 'superior race' was their mission. Everyone else were classified as non-Aryan were either to be annihilated or subjugated. Jews and gypsies falling to the former. Jews were especially despised because of their success. The Jews controlled banks, moneylending firms and other financial establishments. Does the name Rothschilds ring a bell?