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03 January 2006 @ 12:18 am
Another FMA Question....  
May Contain Spoilers to Series and Movie

What is the gateway of Alchemy. I know it is connected to the soul, but is it a place and a living entity at the same time? What are the gate demons? Why do they exist? Things like that....

How would you descibe it? The more I think of it, the more confused I get ^_^;;
Current Mood: confusedconfused
Jiah Pet: Just Add Water!jiah on January 3rd, 2006 12:41 am (UTC)
You've basically got it right. It's the 'thing' that allows for alchemy to simply happen. It houses "the truth," which is sentient and, as with the gate, seemingly beyond time and space.

Gate Babies (as they are affectionately called) seem like spirits being stored in the gate for transmutation purposes (as Moofy lived in the gate for quite a few years before sneaking out).

Bluetard: Heibunnyshichahn on January 3rd, 2006 12:45 am (UTC)
I don't know if I'd call it "alive," exactly, but the Truth is indeed sentient as the person above me said, and seems to be what decides the toll for a transmutation. The gatebabies... we don't know. Since it's shown in the movie that they can be used as a source of power, they may very well be the souls of the dead that power alchemy, but they're all creepy and grabby and weird, so who knows. They're definitely sentient as well, though, to some extent.
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 12:58 am (UTC)
Thanks! I appreciate the help. So people in the one world die, their souls are transformed into "Gate babies"(an affectionate fandom term?) and the gate babies are used in transmutation in the world of Alchemy. So what do they let themselves to be used? Do they become the Homunculus?

I was theorizing that the "grabby creepy gate babies" were indeed souls taken by the gate and transformed into demon like things destined to become "Homunculus". The Gate needs Alchemists in the world of Alchemy to do this because it can't make its own. But I'm not sure how the series does it.

Perhaps it let Al and Ed go though to the :real world" because it wishes to use their souls in the end to make something naughty....

Any thoughts? Theories or ideas?

heh, I have evil plans...
Bluetardshichahn on January 3rd, 2006 01:02 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
If people in either side of the gate die, as I understand, their souls are sent to and stored in the gate. If somebody tries to bring the person back, their soul is stuffed back in their body, straight from the gate, if there is enough paid for the exchange. Their soul, however, has been affected severely by exposure to the Truth, giving them weird abilities but causing massive memory loss. Dante tells the homunculi she created that they have no soul, but this is not true, and just something she convinces them of so that she may control them easier. The gate babies, then, are simply souls who, stripped of their mind and body and exposed to the Truth, become corrupted in a way. That's how it works, as far as I can tell. They're not demons, they're not destined to become homunculi, and the gate doesn't need anything, it just exists. And seems to get a kick out of torturing people.
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 01:05 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Another question. What about Wrath and Izumi? Doesn't she shwo up when he dies inthe film? If so, does that mean there is another place to go?
Jiah Pet: Just Add Water!: Dah fuh?!jiah on January 3rd, 2006 01:10 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Yeh. As Shichahn said, if anyone dies in EITHER world they go to the gate, which means Izumi was able to meet with her child again~ (There are some things Bones dones that you just. Don't. Ask about)
Bluetardshichahn on January 3rd, 2006 01:12 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Yeah, and that's something I haven't really figured out yet. I would say that those born in Amestris don't become gatebabies, but obviously Moofy was in the gate for an extended period of time as a gatebaby. The difference with him, of course, is that he was stillborn. Maybe those on the other side who die, and those in Amestris who are not given a chance to develop consciousness before they die, are sent to the gate? Or maybe his soul wasn't a gatebaby until after Izumi dragged it into the baby's body, at which point it came in contact with the Truth? I don't know, and since there's only one observed case of this hapenning, I don't think there's a way to know for sure. So take your pick or come up with something new.
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 01:23 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
There is a lot to play with, so I will have to ponder for a while.

Perhaps when someone dies on Amestris they go to some afterlife, but when a Human transmutation is done, their soul is dragged into the gate and driven mad? Makes sense to me... I guess...
Bluetardshichahn on January 3rd, 2006 01:25 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
That's about as good as I can come up with.. hehe
Unknown Hypothetical Alien Species-Otherkin!lanoyee on January 3rd, 2006 01:20 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Now that is an interesting theory. May I ask how you got to the conclusion that homunculi do have souls, but were betrayed by Dante?
After all, up to now we've basically been told that they are the result of a failed human transmutation and have a mind, but no soul.
Bluetardshichahn on January 3rd, 2006 01:25 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
If the gatebabies are in fact the souls of the dead, and if in bringing a person back, and thus creating a homunculus, you stick the gatebaby-ified soul into the person's body, then technically they have their own soul, just a messed up version of it. That's how I got that. It's pure conjecture, but it seems to make sense. I could see Dante telling the homunculi they have no soul so that they'd be more motivated to help her get the stone and become human, which worked with Lust, obviously, even if they do in fact have a soul and are technically human, just given odd abilities due to the Truth.
Unknown Hypothetical Alien Species-Otherkin!lanoyee on January 3rd, 2006 01:33 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Ohh, I gotta chew on this thoroughly. o_o; Thank you. ^^;
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 01:34 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Interesting theory. Makes the gate rather Amoral with what it does with souls.
*Shiver* in a way the truth destroys them and makes them a part of the gate, sort of like cells in a body, cells have no thoughts or being so they can't have minds.
So in a way, they have no souls, but they do.

I'm assuming the homunculi are connected to the gate in a way, that is why they needed Envy to open it.

But I havn't seen enough of hte series to make many good theories.

Eeeep my baby is beating on her Ed doll and demanding me to pay attention to her. Poor TV Ed (She has 2 Ed dolls), she's twisting his limbs around and threatening to toss him out.
Unknown Hypothetical Alien Species-Otherkin!lanoyee on January 3rd, 2006 01:54 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
I think the Gate is amoral in that it is the pure, whole "truth". In a way, it is like nature - it doesn't judge, it just is. It is good and bad things alike, but it makes no difference between these terms.
Of course, extended exposal to that will change a soul, so I guess it makes them less human with time and yes, integrates them into the Gate.
As for Izumi, maybe she hasn't been there long enough yet to be Gate-baby-fied? ^_~
So if such a Gatebaby-soul is called back into a newly transmuted body which is not its own, the result may as well be a homunculus. Wrath would be a special case, since he kept his original body.
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 02:00 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
What exactly is the truth. I was thinking I knew what it was, but I might be wrong. Was the truth what Edward saw when he first looked into the gate, that is why he can do alchemy without a circle?

Unknown Hypothetical Alien Species-Otherkin!lanoyee on January 3rd, 2006 02:10 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
Heh, good question now, what is the truth... I personally think it is the answers to all sorts of old philosophical questions like "How did the world come to be?" "What/who are we?" "Where did we come from?" etc o_o. And also the truth about human transmutation, apparently. So yes, I think it is what Ed saw back then, or what Izumi or Hoho or Dante saw. But their exposal is short-lived and they are still earthbound, so I guess that's why there's no danger of being completely eaten by the Gate... that is, if it is satisfied with a limb or two. o_o;
redrose999redrose999 on January 3rd, 2006 03:00 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks
I was thinking, perhaps the truth is an understanding of all reality, time and space, like it is a window into the 4th dimension. When Edward looked upon the gate, he saw into reality/creation itself and gained a subconscious understanding of how things are made up. That's why he can do things; create arrays, (like in ep23) without understanding how or why he can do it.

That's why normal souls can't deal with it and go stark raving mad and loose themselves.
Tobyt3h_toby_chan on January 3rd, 2006 02:03 am (UTC)
I have a theory. That the gatelings (Gate babies) are the souls of the dead that are incomplete or lost. I think there is a possibility of becoming whole again within the gate; that the creation of a homunculus makes a body, brain, genetic information, the Truth, and small pieces of the original soul, but the rest of the soul still remains elsewhere. Therefore, if one were to, in theory as the homunculi seemed to believe was possible, the philosopher's stone was used to make them complete, it would be the proper toll to draw back all the pieces of the soul.

The gate seems to be both heaven and hell for both worlds.
EVILNEKOHILDA: RANDOM_ ORLYowls this is how we rollevilnekohilda on January 4th, 2006 04:27 am (UTC)
Hey, I don't have any answers for your question, but I just wanted to say that every time your icon pops up on my friends list, I almost die of cute/amused -ness... XD