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22 February 2004 @ 11:30 am
FMA... Adult Swim? O.O  
(Cross posted to fma_het) ^^;

There has been a lot of discussion on various communities and boards about FMA sometime making it's way onto Cartoon Network's Adult Swim once it's picked up for release over here. I think a lot of this is because it's often compared to "Trigun," and that was shown here. A lot of fans really do believe it will be picked up, and I admit that it's popularity and shounen elements make it a prime candidate for AS. (As far as a general dub- I'm hoping it's either Bandai or Pioneer that picks it up.)

My first impression was "there is absolutely no way they'll air it." At the time though I blamed that on the fact that I mourn for any series that makes it's way onto Adult Swim. The fandom turns to hell. *sobs for the "Inuyasha" fandom.* This isn't an anti dub thing, as I do love many dubs.

However, upon thinking on it more I realized that I don't think there is really any way this show could be properly catered to the Adult Swim audience.
Sure "Trigun" and "Cowboy Bebop" had violence, death, and quite a few thought provoking ideas... but in FMA those "thought provoking ideas" are ones I can't see Cartoon Network taking the risk with. It isn't the gore, or the violence at all- it's the structure of the series and the themes behind it.
There's a lot of thought on "God" in the series, and from Ed's and Al's point of view it's fairly Anti-faith.
The one thing that really clenched it as "absolutely no freakin way can this be aired here" was the Nina and Alexander incident. It may not have been gory, but that was one of the most gut-wrenching and disturbing things I've ever seen. The point of course, was to show the horrible things that could be done with Alchemy to an extreme so the still young Ed and Al would truly be able to realize that, but I simply don't see how they could possibly air that over here. There has been nothing close to that on AS, and I don't believe there ever will be.
Some of the later things involving the Massacre at Ishbal as well as the secret behind how the Philosopher's stone was made are just too much for the AS audience.
And there is no way they could edit a lot of this, dubbing can do wonders in changing the intention of the series- but in the case of Nina, the only thing they could do is hack the episode completely. There is simply no way to get around it. This series isn't letting up on the intensity as it goes on, and if anything it's getting even worse. (That's a good thing to me though!) Some of the themes being dealt with are contraversial and even somewhat taboo, and I just don't think it has a chance of airing over here.

Any thoughts? Agreements, disagreements?
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
Current Music: Ready, Steady, Go!- FMA Op 2
zippleartwork on February 22nd, 2004 09:55 am (UTC)
I think you're quite right. To me, nothing I have EVER seen compares to FMA. Nothing, which is why I love it so much.

But even if your point is entirely true on the whole religious thing, I find it really funny how it's so taboo in America. I got my friend OBSESSED with FMA, and he's a Christian and his mother is a well-known writer/speaker on the Christian fate. And I really do honestly want the world to know about FMA, but if the "God" issue, a MADE up god, might I add, is stopping it... well, then I'm not so sure about the whole "freedom of religion" bill is about.

And Adult Swim... ah, it needs a different name, or the parents should pay attention to what their (younger) children watch...

*stops rambling nonsense*
Flying Mint Bunny: discouragedharo on February 22nd, 2004 10:06 am (UTC)
And Adult Swim... ah, it needs a different name, or the parents should pay attention to what their (younger) children watch...

XD It's not Adult Swim. It's 12-year-old-fangirls-who-have-now-invaded-fanfiction.net-with-some-of-the-scariest-stuff-I've-ever-seen... Swim.

I know a few other Christians who are into the series as well, but I think that it's a risk that CN won't take.

FMA truly is a unique series, and like you said- I have never seen anything else like it... at all.

It's huge among the American Otaku fanbase, and I think there is little doubt that it will be liscensed for DVD release over here. However... Adult Swim is just a really out there possibility.
frostocelot on February 22nd, 2004 09:58 am (UTC)
"There's a lot of thought on "God" in the series, and from Ed's and Al's point of view it's fairly Anti-faith. " "Some of the themes being dealt with are contraversial and even somewhat taboo, and I just don't think it has a chance of airing over here."

yes, I said this earlier too, I agree. The western audience is not as loose with taboo topics as Japan is. That's why we've dubbed no more than two or three Yaoi anime. But we did bring over many anime with controversial themes, and I believe some of them also included topics involving "God". So I don't know, maybe FMA does have a chance here, but I think this anime has the most direct portrayal of Creation, Sin and other religious themes. I guess it's up to the American licensing companies whether they want to take the risk of bring over something of the next level.
Flying Mint Bunny: ...haro on February 22nd, 2004 10:11 am (UTC)
It seems like American release companies are taking the risk of liscensing more "controversial" anime lately because they know there is an audience.
Hell, it's just mild Shounen-Ai, but if you'd asked me 3 years ago if I thought an American company would ever pick up "Gravitation" I would have said "No way." Now though, it's not only been picked up by a fairly well respected dub company (Right Stuff) but dubbing is in the process and a release date is slated for sometime this year.

I do believe that FMA will be picked up for American release. The utter popularity of it among American Otaku is just enormous. This series has exploded, and American release comapnies aren't going to miss taking a chance on nabbing something so big for release. However- I don't believe it will ever go beyond "dvd release."
My main point was, there's no way it can air on tv. Because a lot of fans have speculated that it will. ^^;
Trina-Chanvielottrina on February 22nd, 2004 10:07 am (UTC)
I agree. Though I think there is a good chance of it getting picked up and put on DVD/Video release. I highly doubt it'll make it the american television. There is a lot of things in that show that they just can't get around. Such as the Nina/Alexander incident cause if they edit it or hack the episode to the death- that incident is constantly brought up throughout the series. And if they did take the scene out or horribly edit it to death- it wouldn't bring the same impact nor would you understand why that incident is important.

I'm like you- I HATE IT when a series is doomed to be aired on CN because it seriously ruins the fandom. I got into Inu Yasha just right before it aired . . . I stopped caring for it I think shortly after it exploded in America. I have horrible fears for another anime show- Gundam Seed which will be airing in a few months and that has some contravosry over in Japan so that show will be hacked to death in a few episodes.
Stays Crispy in Milk (or SCIM for short): It's not me.raditzsex on February 22nd, 2004 10:09 am (UTC)
Adult Swim isn't going to hack any episodes of anything save frontal nudity and the s- and f- words. The death sentence for FMA would be 4-kids or FUNi getting the rights, which would put me in an early grave.

As for the subject matter, you are correct in that nothing in Trigun or Bebop or InuYasha or other animes comes close to the subject matter in FMA, but the irreverent shows *have* touched on many of the same subjects. And we laughed (because it was damn funny!). Nina and Alexander on the surface seems like something we've not encountered very often, but it's really just a more poignant version of the classic Frankenstein tale, which was even touched on in Powerpuff Girls (the Bunny episode).

I guess the real question is this: are AS ready to present the same subjects from the irreverent comedies in a serious thought-provoking manner? If they are, they'll do it right. Because they know we'd kill them if they didn't :)
(Deleted comment)
Re: - raditzsex on February 22nd, 2004 01:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
avianthropy on February 22nd, 2004 11:07 am (UTC)
The main reason I think FMA will never be shown on TV over here is the Ishbal story. When I first read about it in the manga, and then saw it touched on in even more detail in the anime, there were way too many parallels to the real-life war in Iraq. I can barely imagine how much controversy that would cause if it were shown over here. It would probably be seen as blatant political commentary against the US military and government -- more likely on the part of the Cartoon Network/Adult Swim than the original Japanese creators.

I agree that the "God" issue is another big thing that would keep it off the air. If nothing else, simply the fact that the main character(s?) is a self-proclaimed atheist from the first episode would most likely turn a lot of people away.
Brightdreamer (Mel): fleshwoundbrightdreamer on February 22nd, 2004 11:07 am (UTC)
See, I think that AS would be able to show it. As far as the God issue, I don't see enough in FMA that would have the religious people up in arms. I'd think if they were going to protest, they would have against something like Witch Hunter Robin, which is now showing on AS.

As for the darkness of the show... well, it's nothing worse than Blue Gender, which had me cringing at points. (And that takes a lot.) Yes, the Nina ep was horrific, and gut-wrenching, but I don't think it was enough to preclude it being aired on American TV.

Now, if AS doesn't pick it up, what's to stop someone like Tech TV or the new Anime Network airing it? Both of those have showed more controversial shows, (Lain, Eva, etc.), and they're not as widespread, which would keep the scary Fangirls at bay. Personally, I prefer it if one of those were to pick it up.
Ashuli Dreamtideashuli on February 22nd, 2004 11:39 am (UTC)
Now, if AS doesn't pick it up, what's to stop someone like Tech TV or the new Anime Network airing it? Both of those have showed more controversial shows, (Lain, Eva, etc.), and they're not as widespread, which would keep the scary Fangirls at bay. Personally, I prefer it if one of those were to pick it up.

I'd agree with you there, if I didn't know where to get those stations. ^^;;

About religion, I don't really think AS would pick it up because of it. Sure, Witch Hunter Robin brings in sort of a different belief, but it doens't bring in another religion, at least not yet. Unlike FMA, WHR doesn't question God, His power, or Christianity. I'm not saying that FMA doing this is bad (in fact, it makes it much more interesting), but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people might not be ready to accept it.

Look at a lot of yaoi or shounen ai anime series. I... can't really see AS airing those because shounen ai goes against what I think is probably the most popular religion in America.

And I really do honestly want the world to know about FMA, but if the "God" issue, a MADE up god, might I add, is stopping it... well, then I'm not so sure about the whole "freedom of religion" bill is about.

It's not so much the bill or the government that's stopping it, it's more society, isn't it? Many people will not accept the things that FMA projects, which is why AS may or may not air it.
Re: - powercorrupts on February 22nd, 2004 11:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - haro on February 23rd, 2004 03:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
Catie: moody licatystorm on February 22nd, 2004 11:32 am (UTC)
While you have cited very good reasons for why it won't be on TV, I can cite at least one very good one: Look at the progression of what anime has been shown on TV. While it may not be Adult Swim who picks it up, I would not be surprised if it was. A year ago, I would have sworn up and down that a show like Witch Hunter Robin would never been shown on TV, nevermind Cartoon Network.

There has been a steady progression of more adult anime and "riskier" subjects. By the time FMA gets liscensed, it will probably be readied for television, it is too popular not to try it.

The content of the Nina episode would probably not be changed at all, if they do not change or edit anything about the end of WHR. Spoiler for WHR: The fact that they turn all of the witches captured into orbo is rather gruesome, and echoes of the fact that they need live humans for the Philospher's Stone. If they're going to allow that, and the slightly disturbing deaths in WHR, then I don't see why they wouldn't allow FMA.

Worse comes to absolute worst, I can guarantee it'll be shown on the Anime Channel, but that really doesn't count, does it? :D

My ramblin' $.02
Flying Mint Bunny: darkharo on February 23rd, 2004 03:05 am (UTC)
*nod* It's not so much the themes portrayed, but how they are portrayed. We see the Nina thing- Nina is not just some faceless little girl, she's one who we get to know for two episodes- she's practically a main character during that time.

And she's a kid. I think there is still somewhat of a stigma against violence against children in what they air on TV here.
As far as what's been on CN- I recall Zazu (sp?) the Beast in "Trigun," Kohaku in "Inuyasha," and that one evil kid who wasn't really a kid in "Cowboy Bebop." (I simply can't recall his name- the one with the harmonica.) In those cases, the kid was either doing something sinister when he was killed (Zazu, Bebop guy) or the character is still alive and will likely get a happy ending. (Kohaku) There may be something in "Blue Gender," but I'm not as familiar with it and I think since it's a sci-fi future series they have a bit more liberty. And there's some stuff in "Wolf's Rain," with some of the younger wolves like Toboe, but... they're not THAT young. Also- all those characters are male, and violence against females is less acceptable in American media. (Nina is also younger than those boys as well.)

As for the Witch thing in WHR, I actually haven't seen all that much of the series, but it seems when it comes to occult based shows like that. (Whether it deals with witches, vampires, etc.) Americans are bit more liberal. Keep in mind that this deals with the extermination of witches as well. This is nothing new to Americans, as we all studied the brutality of the Salem Witch trials in school, and the Protestants WERE in a less than favorable role there. Since Americans can more easily connect that to history, it is going to fly okay over here.

However, as someone else pointed out, and I touched on lightly- this series deals with SO many issues that there is currently major controversy over in our Nation right now. Some religion issues, several instances involving toying with human life in drastic ways, ALL the stuff at Ishbal which is WAY too much like what is going on in the middle east in some ways, corruption in Government.. blah blah blah.
The only thing the show needs is a random gay marriage and it will be like "American Controversial Issues- the Anime."

If I recall, the "Cowboy Bebop" movie was given an R rating MAINLY for it's use of Bio-terrorism and seemingly Arabic people in villainous roles.

With stuff like the Ishbal massacre where a government is going in and doing this to people who DO have a somewhat Arabic appearance, it would be immediately called "Anti-American" and chaos would ensue.

I just... don't think it could possibly work.
Jenstarlightstorm on February 22nd, 2004 11:35 am (UTC)
AS not air shows that have anything to do with religion? Not entirely true, as they've got Witch Hunter Robin (which has already started airing) and Wolf's Rain (due in April).

I wouldn't say that FMA has anything more religious in it than I've seen in either of those series. (Admittedly, I've only seen about half of WHR, but all of WR, and I stand firm in my statement, at least regarding WR.)

I also don't mind shows that I like airing on US TV - while it does tend to inundate a fandom, it doesn't do anything to change the original, and I'm going to abide by the original series that I fell in love with, and hope that other people seek out the original as well. (That is, at least, my personal story with Cardcaptor Sakura; I saw a few episodes on CN and thought it 'cute', then sought out the original and found it 'excellent'. But I suppose I'm digressing.)

Whether something is going to air or not - that's not something I can control. All I hope for is a US DVD release, to be perfectly honest, and at this rate, it's really just a matter of 'when' instead of 'if'.

Ansem, seeker of the cock: Fragile (DEFAULT)powercorrupts on February 22nd, 2004 11:56 am (UTC)
Ah. I agree about the terrible-ness of the Nina thing, and how dark the series gets, but I'm not sure that would dissuade Cartoon Network - Cowboy Bebop was really dark at the end, and Witch Hunter Robin is an incredible, but pretty darn dark series. In fact, I think that if WHR goes well, they might start picking up more serieses like that, so FMA might just get picked up. It's got a fanbase already, like most that AS has picked up.
And for the religious message... who knows? I know that wouldn't dissuade Viz from liscencing the manga, for instance, or Tokyopop probably either, but Cartoon Network might not consider picking up the anime for that reason.
But right now it's just hearsay anyways.
sinises on February 22nd, 2004 12:02 pm (UTC)
you are right, although i don't consider the nina incident to be the "most gut-wrenching and disturbing things I've ever seen". somehow, the american audience seem to be less tolerable than those in asia, and AS annoys me to no end. (partly because i've seen most anime they put on AS when i was 6) it would be great if FMA gets aired on t.v., but the dubbing and most of the american fans always butcher it one way or the other. so far, the american companies i've seen looks like they love to screw up series. the reasons they probably won't air the series for are either the anit-faith, or the depth of the content provided by the series
Tashatasha_mac on February 22nd, 2004 12:36 pm (UTC)
Why is everyone comparing Trigun to FMA? I fail to see the similarity otherwise...besides the main protagonist wearing a red jacket and sporting blond hair... O_o

Anyway...I think whether or not AS starts airing FMA depends on who gets it. If Pioneer or Bandai get it, it's a possibility. If ADV gets it, it'll be on the Anime Network, blessedly uncut.

As far as "there's never been a more controversial series on AS", Bebop is pretty far up there, if not more. I mean, come on, there were several episodes of Bebop that weren't even aired in the initial JAPAN television release because they felt they were too controversial! omg, Japan edits too! :o

Besides the usual "painting out gay sex and blood" stuff, the only time I remember AS completely cutting out things in CB was after 9/11 when they didn't show Wild Horses, since the guy they were chasing blew up buildings. Which I didn't have a problem with, even though I didn't get to see Andy (I love Andy!).

As far as this:

"I agree that the "God" issue is another big thing that would keep it off the air. If nothing else, simply the fact that the main character(s?) is a self-proclaimed atheist from the first episode would most likely turn a lot of people away."

Oh wow, that's so off. Edward said he wasn't interested in religion, and there's a difference between religion and God. If he was this extreme atheist, why would he be running around saying that him losing two limbs and Al losing his whole body was "God's punishment"? And yeah, Edward saying that sort of thing might turn people off, but I'm a Christian, and I don't see a thing wrong with this show.

Personally, I don't want it on AS, simply because of the other reasons stated here: the extreme and sudden fanatical following it'll get. Yes, FMA needs more attention, but not THAT attention. I don't want to start having to count how many Edward cosplayers I see at every con like some sort of sick drinking game.

Though, it would be nice to have more Roys to glomp...maybe this isn't so bad after all... *ponders*
a magic carpet ridebusyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 01:16 pm (UTC)
I'm a Christian, and I don't see a thing wrong with this show.

yes, but you're not an obsessive, religious zealot that claims Harry Potter is the work of the devil.
Re: - tasha_mac on February 22nd, 2004 01:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - panserbj0rne on February 22nd, 2004 02:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - busyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 02:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - avianthropy on February 22nd, 2004 01:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - busyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 02:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - haro on February 23rd, 2004 03:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
kryspanserbj0rne on February 22nd, 2004 12:38 pm (UTC)
i wouldn't be surprised to find it released on dvd, but i don't think it'll be released on tv (yet). it seems like the american audience is gradually getting more and more used to controversial topics. example: viz recently acquired the manga angel sanctuary by kaori yuki, which essentially butchers christianity/the bible AND it has blatant incest. in addition, more and more shounen-ai series are being released. granted, something released in paperback is entirely different from being aired on tv, but i think it's a hint that increasingly more controversial manga/anime will come.

although, it seems the controversy over FMA is quite different; like someone said before, i think at this point in time, the most questionable aspect of the series is the ishbal war, which has a lot of parallels with iraq. in addition, the characters (ed and al) are close to the age of the audience that will most likely be watching it (the whole "adult" in "adult swim" means nothing, of course *snork*) so it will seem more... realistic, for lack of better wording. all the other shows on AS either have main characters that are/seem significantly older (vash, spike, etc. . .) or, if they are around the same age, in high fantasy that doesn't really cover many questionable issues (inu yasha---> kagome) (and... i'm not going to start on gundam wing -_-;). for example, the episode with barry the chopper? that killed me.

i think that (eventually) it may be aired on adult swim, but it'll be a major leap for them. as of now? i'm not sure... i stopped watching adult swim a while ago... ^^; (too many reruns and bad dubbing, IMHO, although i've heard that it's better now?). although, if FMA is licensed... *hopes that ocean group dubs...*

question: how/where do you get the anime network? ^^;
Pilukita on February 22nd, 2004 01:33 pm (UTC)
although, if FMA is licensed... *hopes that ocean group dubs...*

The one that's base in Vancouver, Canada right? Cause the Texas based one killed me.
Re: - panserbj0rne on February 22nd, 2004 01:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - tasha_mac on February 22nd, 2004 01:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - panserbj0rne on February 22nd, 2004 02:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
a magic carpet ridebusyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 01:15 pm (UTC)
Americans tend to be ... cautious when it comes to religion. There are already so much controversy over religion, I doubt anyone, especially a corporate business, would want to start or even involve itself in such a controversy. Religion is such a touchy subject. And I understand why. With the crazy zealots involved ... no offense to anyone, but honestly, I'm sick of people, not to really discriminate but just due to real life experiences, especially Christians (again, no offense to anyone, just my bad experiences with them in particular), telling me I will be going to hell for disagreeing with their beliefs. And, well, we know the controversy that sparked over ... Harry Potter was it? The lightening scar being the mark of the devil, and wasn't it close to banned or actually banned in several schools? Then again, Adult Swim has aired shows with similiar substance to that of FMA.

But then .... honestly, I'm being selfish, horrible, and an elitist but I don't want it to be more 'popular' than it already is, especially not overtaken by a bunch of underaged American fans. They annoy the hell out of me. Somehow, they always manage to turn me away from a series with their 'OMG!!!111 FMA is TEH KEWLEST!!!111 I LuV FMA!!! I want to marry ED!!!111!!' So I'll be happy if FMA is kept off of AS. Yes, like I said, I know I'm being selfish and horrible, and you can all hate me, but this is just my personal opinion. I don't want fans ruining the show for me, as they already have with other shows.

About other shows being licensed and published/released in the United States, that is more readily available than airing it on public TV. I mean, you can't buy a porn movie, then go and complain to the authorities about its inappropriateness. As long as there is proper warning on the cover, the parent can really do nothing to complain, unless they want to complain about getting it out of the kiddie section of the store or whatever. Well, they can complain; they just won't be too successful. Besides, like other people said, there is an audience, and that equals money. You cater to your target audience, yanno? So, yeah, just because series like Angel Sanctuary (much heavier on the religious symbolism than FMA is, I believe, for now) has been licensed, well, it doesn't mean they will be aired on TV anytime soon.
a magic carpet ridebusyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 01:17 pm (UTC)
ack, panserbj0rne said a lot of what I meant to say. *smacks self* I AM TOO SLOW. XP;;
Re: - sinises on February 22nd, 2004 03:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: - busyizzy on February 22nd, 2004 04:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)