?

Log in

No account? Create an account
 
 
03 December 2004 @ 10:50 am
Al's Birthday & Age in the Anime; Time Line Plot Hole  
Good day all!

Back in September I posted this thread in regards to when Edward's birthday is. I'm glad it's become a good reference for everyone.

Now I'd like make you dizzy with Al's Birthmonth, the 'plot hole' that is Alphonse's Age, and the passage of time that went missing. This info post is going to give you answers; but probably not the kind you were hoping for.



WHOOHO! Watch me avoid school work like the plague... *ahem*

Oh, FMA plot hole. An ugly one too.

This is a plot hole for anyone beating their heads over how old Al is and also in reference to the passage of time that has occured.

It seems Bones forgot how they spent the first half of the series solidifying the ages and dates associated with the boys (they listed their ages several times in the first half of the series... then seemed to give up that consistancy in the 2nd half).

The information they give in the second half of the series for the boys ages is in no way consistent with the information they give in the first half of the series.

The information provided for the boys ages are correct until Bones screws up at episode 32. The information they provide us with in the second half regarding Al's age (and the passage of time) is not mathematically possible.

The boys MUST be one year apart between Feb 2 (episode 1; 10 & 11) and Oct 3 (episode 3; 10 & 11) of any given year (let it be 1910 or 1915 they will be 1 year appart between those times, no one's birthday falls in February thru September).

Just to cover Edward breifly once more; his birthday must be the end of January for this to happen (October + Gracia's 3,1/2 remaining pregnancy months (episode 5) = End of January or Feb 1). In order for the boys to be a year apart for 9 months, Al's birthday has to fall in later October, November, December or January.

Before moving on, this is a side note; Hughes said Elysia's birth was early. The End of January would actually have been early for her birth. Gracia would have been full term in February sometime. Ed's b-day falling End of January gives her anywhere from 1 to 3 weeks early. NO ONE is the size Gracia is unless you're about to pop >_>

Moving on, and with all that said, at some point in time the boys will be the same age because Al's birthday must fall between the end of October and early January (I doubt Ed and Al are both born End of January or something would have been mentioned about the closeness of the dates).

In episode 6, just after Ed's 12th birthday, the boys ages are listed again (11 and 12) to reaffirm that between Feb 2 and Oct 3 there's a one year difference. I doubt little more than a month has passed between Ed's b-day and the Qualification Exam because Nina was in her winter coat and there's still snow on the ground. At the LATEST that date should be End March, but February sometime is more likely. Also, the memory of Ed boiling the water without a circle is still fresh in Al's mind.

Insert plot hole. By episode 10 (1914), the boys are 14 and 15 again. In episode 23, Ed has his birthday (1915) - which means he turns 16. So sometime in the 3 months prior to that Al must have turned 15 in order for them to be a year apart between Feb 2 and Oct 3. This never happens. Still, in episode 32 (obviously a summer episode), Al is 14. Even at the end of the whole series, they're still hinting that Al was 14 because of the "4 years" of lost memories. Obviously, there's no way that works; since 1915-1910 = 5 years.

Personally, I'd go with the information given up to episode 25 (end of the first half) because it was all accurate until then. The series ended around the fall season of 1915; if you go with information in the first half, Ed should be 16 and Al 15. By the time you get to episode 32, the facts loose integrity.

Thank you Bones for your ugly plot hole. >_>!

Arakawa-sensei! I leave this problem up to you to solve.
 
 
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
 
 
 
CphT, bitches.: devious-cute-fearladymetaka on December 3rd, 2004 10:46 am (UTC)
I'm guessing they just didn't mention his birthday; I mean, really, how do you celebrate if you're trapped in a huge suit of armor?

I don't remember episode 32 very well. Did they explicitly state that he was still 14? O.o; I'll have to rewatch 23 and 32.

Arakawa-sensei does need to tell us at least when one of their birthdays are.. x.x; yargh.
Yuuki Hikariyuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 10:51 am (UTC)
I'm sure Edward did something for Al's birthday; he wanted to make sure he aknowledged Al was human - how more appropriate than a birthday. Al also aged (11, 12, then 14) so a birthdy had to occur at some point in time.

and yeah, I had to double check 32 my self. But Al get's asked "How old are you" and he replies "fourteen".

Silly Bones...
Saya Aenslandsaya_aensland on December 3rd, 2004 10:52 am (UTC)
What creates the plot hole is the attempt to keep manga tie-ins in the anime as long as possible.

In the manga's Greed arc, the chimeras ask Al's age. He answers 14. This scene got carried over to the anime. But the boys have different birthdays in the manga, which makes the whole scene possible in the manga (in the current arc, Ed is going to turn 16 very, very soon).

So, yeah. Somebody at BONES didn't doublecheck their notes.
UMEKO danced the CHANSEY Dance!: Al's a MUPPET!!!umeko_pyon on December 3rd, 2004 11:07 am (UTC)
Exactly what I was going to say. >.>
Marikaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 11:18 am (UTC)
Thing is, there can be A LOT of assumptions made about episode five.

- When in October does it even take place? How long have the boys been traveling since Oct.3? We don't know.
- Judging from the language Hawkeye used, Gracia COULD be well into her six month of pregnancy in October, if one wants to assume. Hawkeye specifically said "A baby won't be born AFTER only five months," she didn't say "A baby won't be born in its fifth month." Which means episode 5 COULD be within her sixth month of pregancy.

What makes this even MORE mind-bendy is that Al is actually 11 at the VERY end of the series, meaning that he had a birthday between when Ed disappeared and when we see Al next XD

And either way, the manga's going to be different, because the date on which the boys burned their house is different. In the anime, it's October 3, year 10, but in the manga, it's October 3, year 11! XD
Yuuki Hikariyuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 11:35 am (UTC)
Ah the subtitles are what are misleading XD; "Since it's only been 5 months, the baby won't be born" is the 'ugly sounding' translation of the line. Now if that's the end of the five months or the beginning of 5 months o_O I dunno X3;;;.

Um, it takes place Early/Mid October. It takes 3 days to get from Risembool to Central, a couple day layover with Klose... sometime between October 5 and 10 sounds good.

And yeah, I pegged Al as 11 when he was back on the train at the end... spring time feel and all, Rose's baby teething... (o.o did they ever state that *can't remember*? or is that the "educated guesstimate" after all was said and done XD;)

Why couldn't they have given us birthday's to begin with, saved the screwup and given us no headache hmmmmm ;.;?

And yeah, Manga's WAY different XD;;
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 11:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 11:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - treesock on December 3rd, 2004 12:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - finnell1912 on December 3rd, 2004 11:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 11:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - gundamnook on December 3rd, 2004 02:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 02:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - gundamnook on December 3rd, 2004 02:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 02:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - gundamnook on December 3rd, 2004 02:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Rashka the Demon (wolf in the cave): kakashi dummy morningrashaka on December 3rd, 2004 11:21 am (UTC)
That's a great analysis-- I'd wondered about the 4 years comment at the end but just shrugged it off. Ultimately I figured it wasn't important.

Here's something you can help me with: What is the timeline for the war? I've been thinking about it but I always get confused. We know the war lasted 7 years, and they didn't start using alchemists until "near the end of the war" which I took to mean any time in the last 2-3 years of it. But Al and Ed were 6 and 7 when the Rockbells died... so when did the war start and end? How does it all break down? If the alchemists were used near the end of the war, the Rockbells' death must have been near the end too. How much time has passed from the end of the war to the main timeline? And, of course, how freakin' old is Roy Mustang?
Marikaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 11:23 am (UTC)
Roy's 29 XD
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 11:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rashaka on December 3rd, 2004 12:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rashaka on December 3rd, 2004 01:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mabis on December 3rd, 2004 09:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
《 √esse 》innate on December 3rd, 2004 11:22 am (UTC)
I wish I could write them a letter showing them how dumb they turned with so many things. T_T
Marikaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 11:26 am (UTC)
Now, now. The only people who actually care about this sort of things are, believe it or not, the obsessive fans everywhere else BUT Japan DYAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA XD It's not as if this has never happened in an anime before. I can point out an almost IDENTICAL age inconsistancy in Sailormoon towards its end.
(no subject) - innate on December 3rd, 2004 11:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 11:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - umeko_pyon on December 3rd, 2004 02:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 11:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 01:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - yuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 01:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sherrq on December 3rd, 2004 12:01 pm (UTC)
that's why manga is way better than anime. i always tell so but no-one believes me...
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - sherrq on December 3rd, 2004 01:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sherrq on December 3rd, 2004 01:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on December 3rd, 2004 01:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sherrq on December 3rd, 2004 02:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dogmatix_san on December 3rd, 2004 08:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
reversing the polarity of the neutron flow: maes hughes. fma. [indangerment] x moishinraisei on December 3rd, 2004 02:39 pm (UTC)
"Still, in episode 32 (obviously a summer episode), Al is 14. Even at the end of the whole series, they're still hinting that Al was 14 because of the "4 years" of lost memories. Obviously, there's no way that works; since 1915-1910 = 5 years."

*pokes* The pictures done by Yoshiyuki Ito seem to state otherwise. Mind I agree I think it was a mistake on BONES' part because Ito-sensei when he draws the Character Designs for the episode 51 Restored!Al says that his age is "juuichisai" in other words, eleven years old. It would make sense to say that its the point where his life began all over again at the end of the series rather than being ten years old. (So, he turned 15 but due to the craziness taht was ensuing in Central and in the East, it wasn't mentioned that he turned 15. And 15-4=11. Unless he turns 15 when (highlight for MEGA spoilers to near the end of the series) he's turned into the Philosopher's Stone? (Or when Dante has him captured?) Oooh the irony....xD;;;)

=O
Yuuki Hikariyuukihikari on December 3rd, 2004 02:47 pm (UTC)
*poitns up* kaitou_marina and gundamnook discussed it uptop ^^ Al was found as a 10 year old, but at the end of the VERY end he was 11 because some time had passed before Al got on the train with Izumi; new government had time to form, Roze's baby's grown (teeth X3), Pinako implying that Al had started to look at Alchemy books again, and the winter season's been bypassed (the heart of the series ended in the fall, and suddenly it's spring when we encounter everyone at the end).
Zranazrana on December 3rd, 2004 10:15 pm (UTC)
*random comment* I heard somewhere that in Japan they tend to think of pregancy being a 10 month thing. o.o *can't remember where this info came from*
supermagicalgrlsupermagicalgrl on December 5th, 2004 12:07 am (UTC)
ive heard that also. May dad lived in japan for awhile as a teenager and it seems like he told me once that u are consisdered a year old 2 or three months after your birth cuz they count the gestation period towards your age or something. That was several years ago when he told me that so im not really sure, ill have to ask him again.