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30 November 2004 @ 12:53 am
 
Ok I have a question



What the bloody hell is Envy? I don't know if it is a boy or girl. I always thought it impersonated too many people to remember its gender or true form, but the long hair form it uses. Is it male or female? It sounds male but it looks female. I can't rely on the voice since Al and Ed are both played by women. Does anyone know?

This comes after me seeing a Lust/Envy DJ and they were she males.

Can I just say how much much I love Armstrong!!!!!! He has always been my fav FMA character.
 
 
Current Mood: confusedconfused
 
 
ACacdragonmaster on November 29th, 2004 10:12 pm (UTC)
In the Japanese version of the series, Envy consistantly uses the pronoun "ore" to refer to himself. This is a very masculine pronoun- while I've heard at least one female character use the boyish "boku" before, "ore" is exclusively used by males. So, in the Japanese, there is really little question as to his gender (or at least, what gender he considers himself to be).

And there is also the stuff from the last episodes of the series, where he is definitely male.

Incidently, because of that language thing, one of my friends and I theorize that Envy's English voice will be much lower than his Japanese, and English lacks that sort of lingual indicator of gender.
Red Power Ranger ソランジ: Believeredninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 10:16 pm (UTC)
if it is a girl in the English version, that is it for me and the English dub FMA
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 10:17 pm (UTC)
I've heard it's a guy.

BTW, his Japanese voice actor is female XD
Red Power Ranger ソランジ: Way I like it.redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 10:19 pm (UTC)
yes but so is Ed's and Al's so that proves nothing.

It's true form is male but Envy doesn't remember its true form through out most of the manga
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 10:22 pm (UTC)
I wasn't saying it proved anything, I was just a little confused why having a female voice for him in the dub perturbed you so much.
Red Power Ranger ソランジ: Eyebrowsredninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 10:26 pm (UTC)
no no I think you misunderstood. The voice in Japanese means nothing. If that was true Ed and Al are transexuals.

I just meant the Japanese voice give no clues as to what gender Envy is.
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 10:29 pm (UTC)
I realize that, I understood that XD What I was wondering is why it would have "been it for you" and the dub if Envy had had a female voice actor. I was wondering why that would have bothered you so much. If Envy IS androgynous, why would having a female voice actor in English have been a problem?

And in case you were confused, I meant that I'd heard that Envy's voice in English IS a guy, so you won't have to worry about that.
Red Power Ranger ソランジ: fun with steakredninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 10:37 pm (UTC)
ohh because many series have japanes female voice actors for male parts. But I've only liked one series, FLCL, where a male part has been voiced by a female in the dubs. I have to admitt. English speaking woman have deeper voices then Japanese. I only found out today that Ed was voiced by a female. In English. minus the voice of Noata in FLCL, you can tell that females or males are playing them..

I'm not looking foward to Envy being voice in English just as I'm not looking foward to the English dub of Jakostu.
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 10:44 pm (UTC)
Hmm, but I've watched a great deal of dubs, and heard a lot of female-to-male voices, and I say that some women English voice actors can play maleish voices just as well as the Japanese voice actors can. I don't know if you're familiar with the anime for CLAMP's X/1999, but there is an androgynous character that is part of the cast. In its English dub, a woman was cast to play the part, and she plays it to perfection, sounding like a male and a female simultaneously. In fact, the English voice sounds almost exactly like the Japanese voice, who was also a woman.

Anyway, my point is kind of moot, because Envy's voice will be played by a male in the English version anyway. XD

(I'm very aware that a great deal of women Japanese seiyuu play male parts. In fact, most of my favorite ones do, including Ogata Megumi, Kawakami Tomoko, Sakamoto Chika and, of course, Paku Romi <3)
Red Power Ranger ソランジredninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 10:56 pm (UTC)
Never seen that anime.

You have to remember American are scared of anything no normal. This doesn't go for all Americans.

I know Envy will be played by a man. Its the way of Americans we are kept from alot of things. Just like Salior Moon was Americanized.

I've only seen one dub where the voice confused me.
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:00 pm (UTC)
I think Americans are quite used to hearing females play male voices. After all, it's MORE common in American cartoons to employ a female to play the voice of a young boy than to employ a young boy or man. Sometimes it happens that a male will even play a woman's voice in a cartoon (for example, the Incredibles, one of the female characters was played by a male). It's not something scary to Americans.

If you're saying the FMA dub has been Americanized (your comment confused me) I don't believe it has been at all. CERTAINLY not to the degree of the Sailor Moon dub.
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - acdragonmaster on November 29th, 2004 11:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - acdragonmaster on November 29th, 2004 11:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - acdragonmaster on November 29th, 2004 11:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 30th, 2004 12:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - redninjawinz on November 29th, 2004 11:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on November 29th, 2004 11:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 10:16 pm (UTC)
This is true too, I'd forgotten that! *laughs* I'm sure Envy thinks of himself as male, but there's also the way he "dresses," so to speak. It's not exactly the most masculine form of dress, at least not by conventional standards. He's pretty much wearing a skort, and what amounts to a "manbra" (is what my anime club calls it). He also calls himself "cute/pretty," not many males do that. That, combined with the speech patterns you reminded me of, still makes me think that the form he maintains most of the time is fairly androgynous *nods*
ACacdragonmaster on November 29th, 2004 11:08 pm (UTC)
There's also the point that there is a whole thing in Japanese culture associating ambiguous gender with divinity or something, I don't remember the details just now. But if they *really* wanted Envy to be ambiguous, he might've used the pronoun "watashi", which is used by both girls and guys.

Though, I've only read the first chapter of the manga (in raw Japanese!), so I don't know what pronoun Envy uses for himself there. If he does use "ore", I'd say that he is identifying himself at least with masculinity (i.e. a tough guy who can fight for himself) if not actually male.
Marikaitou_marina on November 29th, 2004 11:12 pm (UTC)
*nodnod* I agree that he probably thinks of himself as male. And I said in another comment that ambiguous gender is also an important symbol in alchemy too, so it would make sense *nods*

Unfortunately, I don't have the manga in Japanese, so I can't tell you what he calls himself. Anyone want to jump in here?
Shinhoshishinhoshi on November 29th, 2004 11:34 pm (UTC)
Are you talking about the anime version with regard to his use of "ore"?

I haven't had the time to check through the whole show, but at least in episode's 50 and 51 he refers to himself as "boku" each time. Even in his "true form."

I actually thought it was kind of cool that he used "boku" like that. It kinda gives the sad impression that he might not have been always or intentionally evil.

Do you know a specific spot in the show where he uses "ore"? It'd be interesting to see where it is and under what circumstances he uses it...