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26 January 2004 @ 09:48 am
Kind of a random observation, and I'm not sure if it's a spoiler...I know the second one might be, but I'll abuse me a little LJ tags instead of making enemies. XD

Armstrong comments that he's never heard of someone doing Soul Alchemy. This makes me wonder...it can't be something that Edward did on the fly (right? O_o), and there wasn't enough time for Ed to do a little quick research as he bled to death, so did he have the technique researched before they tried to bring his mother back? Is that why he just sorta brushed off Al's question about what they were trading for the soul when they tried to bring their mother back? Was Edward just planning on making her body, and bringing her soul back afterward?

This is the reason why you shouldn't let me sit and think for more than three minutes at a time. -_-;;

I'm totally disappointed in Roy. Completely and totally. I mean...if he went to the trouble to imitate Edward, the LEAST he could do is shimmy. Is that too much to ask? Yeesh.
Current Mood: contemplativecontemplative
Current Music: Cowboy Bebop - Space Lion
Rukawa GF: roy_poserukawagf on January 26th, 2004 08:54 am (UTC)
well remember in the manga, (iforget if the anime did it gomen) they went to study from their teacher (i think they did it too in the anime) they learned more alchemy from her before in order to bring back their mom. I'm thinking Ed and Al learned the process and theories, never really had to do it. Ed and Al both failed to bring back their mom, but Ed sucessed in at least bringing back Al. I think. So I wouldn't say on the fly there. More like, Ed knew the theory. Knew and learned the process. when he really did it, he failed the first time, succeded the second?

and I can't totally agree but I do ^^; Roy didn't do the best job imitating Ed. And Sooo insultingly too. While Ed immitated Roy sooooo perfectly before in ep 13 XD
Tashatasha_mac on January 26th, 2004 10:11 am (UTC)
Well, yeah, but...I guess I was really wondering why Ed just ignored Al's question, when it really was a very valid point. Maybe he was just so focused Ed didn't hear him. ^^;

I think Roy's insulting was -supposed- to be bad. I think everyone else is so used to Ed being all energetic that seeing him so NOT energetic and quiet was unnerving. I mean, Roy jabbed Ed and kind of waited for a response but didn't get one, then a few moments later Hughes (I think) and Havoc sorta tag-teamed insulting Ed, and looked like they were expecting Ed to freak on them but he never did.

Actually, Roy's impression was rather funny. XD There was just no jig. If Edward went to the trouble to jig, Roy has to as well. *nods*
Stray Cat Struttin': Miniskirts! | kimisaeirebakenjimurasame on January 26th, 2004 12:01 pm (UTC)
I can just picture Roy's response: "I don't jig."
descrimedescrime on January 26th, 2004 01:10 pm (UTC)
If you want the spoiler, when Ed went to the place between worlds, he saw a set of doors leading to some place (I'm not sure what it was, I haven't translated that part yet). I'm not sure what was on them (once again, I haven't translated that part) but I think they talked about the process of alchemy. I do know seeing those doors is what gave Ed the ability to do alchemy without the circle (he talks later to his teacher about how he's not really a genius because he saw the doors and his teacher replies that he is a genius because he survived seeing them). What was on the doors most likely also showed him how to do soul alchemy.


Actually, the entire sequence is rather freaky (pulling this from my memory ^^). Ed and Al do the whole resurrect mom routine, but then you see these little black hands reaching out and grabbing Al and Ed's leg. Al is pulled into the vortex in the center and disintegrates, and Ed wakes up to find himself in this place that is all white except for two doors which seem to be floating in midair. There is also this glowing, fuzzy outline of a person. Ed talks to the ghost (not sure what it is) and then the doors open and he gets pulled through them by more little black hands. Then there are all these strands that look like film strips showing a baby growing and other life processes. The outline/ghost of Ed's mom shows up, but when he reaches for her, he finds himself back in the white space in front of the doors, which are closed again. Ed talks to the ghost and his leg starts to disintegrate. As his leg disappears, the left leg on the ghost becomes real.

Ed then finds himself back in the real world, alone and with a bloody stump on his left leg (in the spirit world there was no blood as he lost his leg). A suit of armor falls over. Ed crawls over and uses his blood to draw an array it. He then covers his hands in blood and claps them together in a manner we're all familiar with meaning he's about to transmute something. He shouts something, but I haven't translated it yet. ^^ Back in the spirit world, we see the ghost's right hand becoming solid. Oh, and in the end of the chapter, the ghost smiles just like Gluttony.

Bleh, sorry the summary is kind of rushed. Still, it was a good chapter. ^^ It's one of the reasons I like the manga more.

That's also what confused me in episode 16, because Ed says that he didn't gain anything from trying to resurrect his mother, but he did gain that knowledge in alchemy, which allowed him to save his brother and do alchemy without a circle.

Yeah, I was a little disappointed by Roy's impression of Ed too. ^^
Aviybloodfiligree on January 26th, 2004 01:55 pm (UTC)

My friend translated that part of the manga for me so to fill in some gaps:

The 'ghost' answers to being many things. I dunno what realm of philosophy it falls under, maybe I'll as someday, but when Ed asks him what he is it answers lots of stuff like "You" "God" "The World" "The Universe" and others I don't remember. In theory this same being took Al as well but you'll notice that it doesn't look like Al, even though when Ed later loses his leg it appears on the being. So one pretty much concludes that the being is different for every person, something akin to a spirit, or maybe every person just sees it differently *shrug*

When Ed goes through the doors he gets the information on how to do alchemy without an array, it also confirms that thier theory on bringing their mother back was not incorrect, merely 'not enough'. When he's pulled out of the doors he wants to go back in, to get the rest of the knowledge he needs, and the being tells him that no, that was all he could afford with his 'pass'. Then the leg disappears and reappears on the being.

When Ed crawls over to attach Al's soul to the armor, he now knows what to do with the soul, so I assume he also got that knowledge behind the door. He offers both his hands, even his heart, just 'give me back my little brother' and does the alchemy. We all know how it goes from there.

I asked about it, considering that Al's entire body was taken (we assume also through the doors, the same way Ed lost his leg) that he should have more than enough knowledge as to how to get their bodies back, maybe even how to get the philosopher's stone or their mother, however Al doesn't remember anything.

As for the bit about Ed and Al not getting anything back from trying to save their mother....well, it's true that Al didn't get anything for losing his body. But most likely since this only came out in volume six, the people writing the anime simply didn't know >D I mean, the anime also makes it look like Ed just kind of 'picks up' his ability to use alchemy without an array, when he infact lost his leg for the knowledge and used it immediately there after. But the writers didn't know that so went with their best guess *shrug*
thegreatpeanuterpeanutbaby13 on January 26th, 2004 03:24 pm (UTC)

What was behind the door was 'the truth' so its been theorized that once Ed saw 'the truth', he was able to do all sorts of craziness (transamute without an array, transmute souls). I believe 'the truth' was the truth about creation or the cycle of life (if this makes sense...its usually referred to simply as 'the truth'). Also the fact remains that Ed doesn't really know wtf he is doing, he just KNOWS he knows...I don't think he's put one and two together as of book 6....also the fact that he has this knowledge is the main reason the 'Seven Sins' are after him. They need him as a sacrifice.
Aviybloodfiligree on January 26th, 2004 03:38 pm (UTC)
Re: because...
SPOILERS ...kinda...okay question that will leads to spoilers:

What do you mean he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing but knows he knows? O.o Do mean like, he knows that he can use transmutation without an array but he doesn't understand how that works? (BY THE WAY why the hell is up with everyone who looks at him realizing how his transmutation without an array works, and yet NO ONE ELSE CAN DO IT?! "Oh, I see, you make the circle by putting your hands together, that's obvious...Wait, if it's so obvious why don't I do it myself? Um...") Cause I mean...he does seem to know what he's doing? He was given the knowledge that his theory on transmuting humans was correct, which means he knew before he even went to the door, and it just told him he was right, merely falling a little short...
thegreatpeanuterpeanutbaby13 on January 26th, 2004 03:54 pm (UTC)
Re: because...
well he basically has half-assed information. In the manga, he goes through the door once, almost gets what he needs to know about human transfiguration and then gets yanked back out by 'the entity'. He asks to be let back through the door because 'he almost has it' but the entity wouldn't let him (kinda like the kid with the ice cream joke).

So somethings he does and understands how he can do them, other things are off the fly, and then some things he does not know yet. Soul 'bonding' does exist, other people can do it (ie number 66 and 28?) its just rare because its really difficult.

BTW Al and Ed's teacher can do alchemy without an array.
Aviybloodfiligree on January 26th, 2004 04:44 pm (UTC)
Re: because...
I believe you on the soul bonding does exist. I mean, it has to for Ed to do it ^^; But yeah, I know what you mean, other people can do it. Clearly other people can transmutate humans, since that's what the Sins are, it stands to reason that others figured out how do stuff that is apparently 'easier'.

By the way, my knowledge of the manga beyond what Toriyama's World has translated is very minimal. My friend has friends that will occationally scan her stuff and then she'll translate it if she can, so I know some stuff from volume six, little pieces from other volumes, but not everything inbetween.

That stated: Al can do alchemy without an array? I haven't seen any sign of that yet? I believe it with the teachers but seeing as Al 'died' four years ago, you'd think that it would be the kind of thing he already knew how to do. But the few times I see him use alchemy he draws it out. Can you explain further, please?
thegreatpeanuterpeanutbaby13 on January 26th, 2004 05:17 pm (UTC)
Re: because...
no no, I meant THE TEACHER of ed and al (she taught them both) can do alchemy without an array...Al still needs one...

I have all the books of the manga and the perfect guide btw
Maria'san: Ready by Mii-chanmii_chan on January 26th, 2004 03:19 pm (UTC)
wow.. spoiler loaded post.. must..resist..temptation..to.. read!! ahhh, my eyes my eyes!

anyway, yeah, Roy didn't jig. Bad Roy. and i was waiting for a major funny outburst from Edo.. but that just didn't happen.. or maybe.. a little.. at the end.. hehe.. XDXD