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04 October 2004 @ 02:36 am
Episode 51, again  
I haven't seen this topic discussed in any of the threads so far, and I apologize for making another ep 51 thread - this has to do with Roy.

Roy does not seem to be involved in the government, so much, so do we agree with the Daisoto that because of Roy's involvement in a coup, he's excluded from rejoining governmental activity? Obviously his goal of becoming Daisoto himself is null, since the Parlimentary government is in charge, and I decided Roy would probably be happy enough with the change in how things are governed, since his real issue was more along the lines of "I'm going to run it so that evil crap doesn't happen." He doesn't seem to be in the military any longer (not that I'm surprised by that, since, again, his reason for staying in is gone), so what's Roy doing nowadays? (Anyone who says "Riza" will be summarily shot. Riza/Havoc OTP forever, baby, or failing that, Riza/Roy/Havoc OT3.)

Also, it doesn't seem as if the government prosecuted Roy - one might assume that the soldiers who were actually taking Riza off knew the whole thing, but...I would think that others would know what Roy did, and well, governments don't like insurgents. So why isn't Roy in jail/up to be executed? The two options I came up with were 1) that for some reason no one did know that it was Roy or 2) because the new government was just as happy to get rid of the Daisoto, they decided to "forget" that Roy was involved in a coup attempt, as long as he doesn't try for them.

Edit: I'm not denying that Roy/Riza is canon - I'm just saying that one should not answer that "Riza" is what Roy is doing. Because given my phrasing, I would be inclined to answer in such a snarky way. But there you go. And re: the OTP - part of the point of OTPs is that they're not canon, so.

I'm probably thinking about this too much.
Marikaitou_marina on October 3rd, 2004 11:47 pm (UTC)
I don't think Roy's left the military, because my favorite bookworm is still calling him "Colonel" in her monologue at the end.

Then again, she did that with Hughes after he died, so, maybe it's just her XD
-: Stfurosa_aquafire on October 4th, 2004 12:32 am (UTC)
She`s MY favorite bookworm ;___;

(no subject) - elihice on October 4th, 2004 06:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sappedsapped on October 4th, 2004 12:00 am (UTC)
Well... I don't see how you can deny Roy/Riza but onto your question

I would think Roy would only be persecuted if his attempt was unsuccessful. Personally I think Roy, once he killed Bradley, had the option of becoming fuhrer himself (I mean he basically succeded in overthrowing the current government) but decided to hand over control to a parliament.

As to what he's doing well I imagine he probably returned to his old posistion in the military after his recovery. Afterall he just has the heart of a military man.
crysiana on October 4th, 2004 04:31 am (UTC)
I'm not denying that Roy/Riza is canon - I'm just saying that one should not answer that "Riza" is what Roy is doing. *grin*

And generally, insurgents are persecuted if they themselves don't end up being the government, and I didn't see enough evidence (for me) that Roy himself had gained the power (rather than there being other people who worked things out to their benefit.)
(no subject) - sapped on October 4th, 2004 10:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
summerwolf on October 4th, 2004 12:09 am (UTC)
I don't think Roy has left the military....yet. He's still referred to as Mustang Junshou, his General rank. Maybe he's still around in there, helping the Chess General root out the rest of the military semi-villains (I haven't watched 48 subbed, but Hakuro is still there?). If he's not....well, I can't see why you would shoot Riza out of the equation if we're really debating, since we all have our interpretations on things.....(personally, can't stand Havoc/Riza myself...if it must be someone other than Roy, I prefer Ed. XD;;; )

But barring that, maybe he's gone back to being a full-time Civilian State Alchemist? From the amount of books in his house, I think it's safe to say that Roy's also got an alchemist's heart in him. Like how he compromises.

Maybe they haven't decided what they wanted to do with Roy just yet, the government I mean. It might be answered in the movie, but Roy does seem content with how things are at the moment.
crysiana on October 4th, 2004 04:38 am (UTC)
*points* See edit.

And I like your idea of his being a civilian State Alchemist, though I'm not sure he'd necessarily be allowed that. (I tend to agree more with neko_yasha001 down the page.) But I could also, as you say, see the government simply as not having gotten around to Roy yet.
Tashatasha_mac on October 4th, 2004 12:22 am (UTC)
Another coin in the Roy/Riza hat. The scene they shared when she was peeling the apple was so sappy and blatant it hurt. ^^;

I got the impression he wasn't anymore. The last the military knew of him, he was staging a rebellion in the north, but he must have been pardoned from that or something, since Armstrong is obviously still in the military. Also, he would still be called by his military rank even if he wasn't in the military anymore. Think about how veterans here are called. There's no way he could have been connected to the Fuhrer incident, cause it's like Bradley said...he had no proof of wrong-doing, so he was just an assassin, and those aren't given pardons.

I don't think anyone knew Roy was at the Fuhrer's place. The way the guards told Archer what happened makes me think they just thought Hawkeye was causing a ruckus. So the only people who knew Roy was there was Bradley and Selim, and both are gone (*sniff for Selim ;_;*).

Though, I'm kinda wondering about Scheska's role in the military now. Was she in Hughes's/Archer's office in that last scene? Did she raise in rank? ^_^;;;
Rashka the Demon (wolf in the cave): Hughes sleepy -psychodragon82rashaka on October 4th, 2004 01:30 am (UTC)
was Selim the Furher's son? I couldn't tell if he died or not.
(no subject) - 1314 on October 4th, 2004 04:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - crysiana on October 4th, 2004 04:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
riyuen on October 4th, 2004 12:40 am (UTC)
Well, you don't know he's left the military/government. He was wounded fairly badly losing an eye and all. Perhaps he's on leave while he recovers.

And I'll have to be summarily shot, because Roy/Riza seems pretty much a canon pairing from Ep 51. And I really don't understand Riza/Havoc ^^;. I don't have a preference though - this is my completely pairing neutral opinion.

Or, Roy has friends in the new government XP.
Rashka the Demon (wolf in the cave): Knives and Stalin's cupcakerashaka on October 4th, 2004 01:28 am (UTC)
I think Roy's actions might have been seen as justified by his protection of the child-- which proved that the Furher was guilty. I guess it just all came out, and Roy was either found not guilty in a court, or the new government just decided not to press charges. After all, he disobeyed the old government, not the new one. So they can't really accuse him of treason to the current government.
darjeeling darlingmalika on October 4th, 2004 03:31 am (UTC)
Yeah, I was wondering about that too... he might just stay in the military and not bother getting a promotion. I also think anyone besides his staff that knew he was gonna kill the Fuhrer is dead now.

Also, Riza/Havoc? HAUT. canon is fer loserz!!111
crysiana on October 4th, 2004 04:27 am (UTC)
Mm. People seem to be missing that OTP = "I know it's not canon and don't care." ^^;
(no subject) - rashaka on October 4th, 2004 11:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - malika on October 4th, 2004 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - crysiana on October 5th, 2004 08:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
totally irreverantneko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 04:21 am (UTC)
By real martial law, Roy and Liza would have been dragged up in front of a firing squad, even if they did save the world – they attacked the leader of their country, and that's an offense punishable by death.

But Pride was a homunculous, so I suppose they had to allow some inching along. They probably either dishonorably discharged Roy and Liza, or discharged them with full honors. Your pick. (the dishonorable discharge would be more realistic)
fingersinitalyfurato on October 4th, 2004 07:08 am (UTC)
By real martial law, Roy and Liza would have been dragged up in front of a firing squad, even if they did save the world – they attacked the leader of their country, and that's an offense punishable by death.

Though I was happy to see nobody dies (except Bradley's poor son), I was thinking along the same line. The explanation that he's a homunculus may not be enough, because well... what's the proof? It would look like Roy killed the President and his son, Archer is a hero that got killed in duty. But perhaps no one knows that Roy was in the mansion.

So I was thinking that the insurgence led by Armstrong actually won and they seized the military power, a successful coup. Thus explains why none of the military personnels we love are court martialed for treason.
(no subject) - finnell1912 on October 4th, 2004 07:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 12:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - crysiana on October 4th, 2004 01:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 02:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - furato on October 4th, 2004 11:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 5th, 2004 04:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
Mike: Stabby (Hughes) [finnell1912]finnell1912 on October 4th, 2004 07:14 am (UTC)
I think the key lies in the line that the "Furher Disappeared" they have no proof he died, no body, no blood, no nothing. The old General Roy was friends with (and who is seen at the end when they "introduce" the parliament) believed in Roy. Remember Roy said there where corrupt forces at hand in the military, and when the Furher "vanishes" without a trace that doesn't look so good.

As for the dead son of the Furher...

"Archer went mad and attacked and killed the boy, Roy tried to intervene and was shot. Lt. Hawkeye then managed to take down Archer before he could finish off Roy."

Remember Archer went ape shit bananas at the end many people seen him acting irrational hurting friend and foe alike. So that would be a perfectly legit argument.

”Well why was Roy at the Furher’s mansion?” He was confronting, or was going to confront, the Furher about his corruption; he attacked Roy and ran off with the other corrupt forces.

I think Roy is out of the military personally. He met his goals to make sure war wouldn’t be waged needlessly (by helping a parliament take over) as well as avenging the death of Hughes by killing (what he knows) as the head of bad guys. In addion he did start a rebellion; he may have ended up just being discharged thanks to his General friend. Not to mention he is no longer fit for combat missing and eye and probably having some brain damage (hence the fact he’s bed ridden and has a cane in the one shot).

I don’t know about Riza, she may still be in the military but just on leave to help Roy.
crysiana on October 4th, 2004 11:05 am (UTC)
That actually does sound like a very plausible explanation of the events, and it does explain why Roy wouldn't be carted off to be executed. Thanks.
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 12:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - finnell1912 on October 4th, 2004 01:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 02:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Asimuthasimuth on October 4th, 2004 11:38 am (UTC)
Here's my question...

When Riza ran up to Roy after killing Archer, why did she call him Taisa? XD
Mike: Stabby (Hughes) [finnell1912]finnell1912 on October 4th, 2004 12:16 pm (UTC)
As far as Colonel vs General goes I don't think Roy or Armstrong took their promotions as meaningful. In the trench they called Armstrong Major and refered to Roy as Colonel.

As far as military title vs name, a last vestage of formality.
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 01:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - crysiana on October 4th, 2004 01:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - neko_yasha001 on October 4th, 2004 03:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shinraisei on October 4th, 2004 08:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
♞ lovely little liar ♞metallic_sweet on October 4th, 2004 03:28 pm (UTC)
Hm... well, discarding the obvious faultiness with some of the plot when it comes to this, I think Roy may be on a sort of "sick leave" to recover from his wounds. It is obvious he hasn't been discharged (honourably or dishonourably; and he's not on trial else we would have seen him in jail) or it would have been mentioned. Riza is also intitled to a sick leave to regain her strength after being shot in the arm. If the FMA world also has the required therapy that is given to wounded soldiers, both of them are probably also having to go through those steps; Roy also has to get used to having only one eye with requires some rehabilitation.

The rank of Brigadier General is probably Roy Mustang's wartime rank. I believe Eisenhower had a wartime rank of a five-star general, but during peacetime he was down-graded to the status of a four-star to keep people from being edgy. During peacetimes, Roy Mustang is still a colonel.

It may also be that Roy Mustang does not remember anything about what happened when he confronted the Fuhrer, and it would be very hard to put him on trial for it. One doesn't get shot (presuming he got shot) in the eye and always remember the events leading up to that when he wakes up. It could be the wound wiped memories, or that he's surpressed them.
パイロチャン 「Pyrochan」pyroh on October 6th, 2004 04:20 am (UTC)
Heh, since Monday I've been rambling about Roy, Hawkeye, the military, and other bits about ep51 on my LJ. They're the three most recent posts on the page, so not hard to locate XD There may be a few errors here and there cause I've only watched that episode once and during most of it I wasn't paying attention cause I was in absolute shock thinking that Roy was dead. T_T

On another note, everyone in this comm posts too much! XD I'm STILL catching up on all the posts since Saturday and I'm only on *scrolls up* Monday. Oh geez... @_@