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24 July 2005 @ 11:04 pm
Looking for second opinions. [movie]  

I know most people know about it through reading summaries and spoilers, but... I didn't see any overall negative reviews. So I was curious if anyone who had seen it disliked it as much as I did. And for those just looking for reviews... I figured I'd give an differing opinion.

Personally, I absolutly hated the movie. Beyond Al (who was 110% awesome and perfect), and a couple minor characters (Roy, Hiderich, Armstrong)... it was bad. Maybe because the majority of the movie was a bunch of stuff (often dragging in WWII and the nazis) from our world that I just... didn't care about? Most of the movie didn't even feel like it was FMA.

And the animation? Why did they use playstation-style animation, and not do it like the anime? If it's an issue of time, they could have just postponed the movie longer. Especially if that would have prevented the use of computer animation.

Even the music was not even close to being up to par with the anime.

I could only have been more let down if Al hadn't been as awesome as he was.
Current Mood: disappointeddisappointed
Mental Vomit: its poop again.thisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 03:54 pm (UTC)
i'm glad SOMEONE said something! lol i havnt seen the movie, and wont until it comes out online, but from what i've read in the summaries, i have a feeling i'm not going to like it. at all.

it really bothers me that they would just abandon their friends and family like that. especially winry, after everything she'd done for them? selfish.

and from what i've gathered (correct me if i'm wrong, i hope i am.) they destroyed the gate, right? "to prevent more fighting" yeah, bangup job you did there, ed. as if there wouldnt be any more wars if the gate no longer exsisted. *rolls eyes*

plus, wouldnt that make alchemy impossible for the other world? alchemy is powered by the gate, so really he destroyed a MAJOR aspect of that entire world's culture and science. sure they have other technology, but so much depended on alchemy.. so much of their society was developed around it... ehh. it bothers me that they'd just up and get rid of it like that.

and roy spending his days being emo over his losses? completely OOC, imo. he is a fighter, i dont see him ever giving up in trying to make his country a better place, not after everything he's been through. and why would his subordinates just let him fall to ruin like that? especially riza. ehh.

reading the manga after i watched the series left me with a pretty low opinion of it anyway, though. the manga is so much more well thought out and realistic. the anime just makes no sense to me.
jennib82 on July 24th, 2005 04:34 pm (UTC)
Thank You!
I'd just like to second absolutely everything you said. Point for point, that's exactly what I feel. ("bangup job you did there, ed!" LOL!)I haven't seen the movie yet, just read summaries, so I am willing to admit that I may turn out to be dead wrong, but I was reading the manga before I saw the anime, and so most of the anime series left me with an altogether wtf? feeling anyway. So I am also totally willing to admit that most of my dislike may come from me being a manga!snob too.

But my degree is in history, so I have studied exactly what went on during these years across the world multiple times: depression, genocide, war, famine. Most of what was happening at that time was so deplorable and sad that quite frankly, I find it depressing that such a great story set in such an interesting world ended up there.

I don't know. Made no sense to me either, I guess.
Mental Vomit: the answer is in my head.thisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 04:52 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
so as a history major, how do you feel about everyone being up in arms about alter hughes' character being a nazi? (ALTER hughes, you guys. not hughes. alter.)

i'm an ancient history buff.. modern doesnt excite me too much, but from what i gather, didnt people in germany during the nazi regime really have no choice whether they fought for the party or not? EVERYONE in germany was technically a nazi at that time, werent they?
Laura: FMA: Pay for Lovetavella on July 24th, 2005 05:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
No, not even in 1943; Nazi party membership was not required (Hitlerjugen was a slightly different thing.) And in 1923, the Nazis were a nasty fringe group; being a Nazi in 1923 mean you Really Believed. And given that their core beliefs including stripping Jewish Germans of citizenship, and they had already by that time started violent attacks on other political parties and Jews, it's um, pretty icky to make him one.

However, alter!Hughes != Amestris!Hughes, and therefore anything this one does doesn't lessen the real Hughes heroism.
Mental Vomitthisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 05:32 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
hmmm. alright, i admit i was wrong.

but yeah, alter hughes still does not equal amestris hughes. at all. none of the other alter characters are being compared so closely to their amestris originals like hughes is.
a fangirl: honest! (itsgravitation_)treesock on July 24th, 2005 09:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
For me, I compare the two because Arakawa and BONES took away Maes Hughes (ie Amestris Hughes)

So I figured maybe BONES could kind of do a "hay hughes fans have a treat" kind of thing with the 'real world' Hughes being... super badass or whatever. XD

...I never said that I made sense now. :P
jennib82 on July 24th, 2005 05:37 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
tavella is right, nazi partyship was never "required" though if it were 1943, you could make more of a case for coercion because the nazis had full power and any countermovements were more underground. But to be a nazi in 1923...

The thing is, though, that in the 1920s the world had just come out of WWI. Germany had lost and according to the terms of the treaty were held responsible for the war. They were downtrodden both economically and emotionally and Hitler gave them reason to feel good about their nation again. Not that that excuses AT ALL what he and his followers did, but it does give a little bit of a reason as to why an otherwise good person might follow such a man.
Mental Vomit: the answer is in my head.thisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 05:48 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
*nods* see, i dont know the specifics of the history enough to make a real educated case about it, but i had an underlying feeling from my fading memories of high school history class lectures that there was something more to nazi party members before and during the war lol

of course it doesnt excuse it, but the power of propaganda can be profound in a desperate situation, THAT much i know.

though i thought i read in one of the summaries that towards the end of the movie he realized his allegiance to them wasnt such a hot idea afterall?

*flails* but he's still not maes hughes! lol
jennib82 on July 24th, 2005 06:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Thank You!
haha! No he is NOT Maes Hughes. But I hope that alter!Hughes did have a change of heart in the end. That would parallel the two characters nicely, I think. Because when you think about it, Amestris was involved in the Ishbal war, and Hughes, Mustang, etc. were all involved as soldiers following a leader who is to put it mildly not the best of men. When Hughes realized that something was wrong, he set out to right it, and ended up paying for it. It is corageous too, I think, to realize that you have done wrong and try to right it. Maybe alter!Hughes will do this too. NOT THAT WE WOULD EVER KNOW!! ;)
desudeitydes_akazim on July 24th, 2005 05:01 pm (UTC)
No more fighting between the worlds, that's what he meant.
Mental Vomitthisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 05:09 pm (UTC)
hrrmm. okay, but was it THE gate that was destroyed, or just the portal that connected the two worlds? (or are they one in the same? lol)

i am getting riled up about incorrect assumptions again. someone school me! i dont want to hate this movie before i see it! lol
desudeitydes_akazim on July 24th, 2005 05:11 pm (UTC)
I think he said there was more than one gate. He'll destroy the gates? o_ q Well he closed the Gate that connected the two (and possibly a lot of others- the Gate is always kind of mysterious)
Mental Vomit: seeing differently.thisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 05:37 pm (UTC)
hmph. well thats not too clear, is it lol

i am still ever wary, but for me it's better to go into a hyped up movie with a low opinion of it rather than believing everyone's "OMG IT WAS SOO GOOD OMG" rants, because if i believe the positive hype i am ALWAYS disappointed.

at least this way i'll be pleasantly surprised lol
Number One Spoon: scar/mei OTPherongale on July 24th, 2005 05:43 pm (UTC)
and from what i've gathered (correct me if i'm wrong, i hope i am.) they destroyed the gate, right? "to prevent more fighting" yeah, bangup job you did there, ed. as if there wouldnt be any more wars if the gate no longer exsisted. *rolls eyes*

Considering that I haven't seen the movie either, I can't speak with authority here. But it seems to me that Ed wanted to destroy the specific gate that was still open between the world, the one that the bad guys were using in an attempt to take over the FMA world. As far as I can tell, that doesn't mean that they destroyed the natural exchange of energy between the two worlds, or the possibility of they, themselves, opening ANOTHER gate that they can either hide or close when they get home.

Addressing some of your other points: I believe that it was a sign of maturity for Ed to go back to our world and take care of a situation that could end up causing both worlds problems. It shows that he's grown up, has become more mature and responsible. It was a conscious choice of his to sacrifice the things that matter most to him (yes, even Al) in order to serve the greater good of humanity. That is admirable. Calling it 'selfish' seems to me to be a rather regrettable misread of the situation.

As for Roy... why is it so unbelievable that he'd stew in depression for a while? He's not so much a "fighter" that he didn't have major depression following the Ishibal war... we saw some of that in flashbacks. He'd resolved his depression by the time the series started, but the REASON he had resolved it was because he'd come to formulate a plan: rise up the chain of command in order to fix the military.

He'd set himself this grand purpose in life, which allowed him to distraact himself from his guilt. That purpose was shattered after he killed King Bradley. He was demoted and his dream was pretty much destroyed. That would give anyone depression, I think, and especially someone as proven to be susceptible to it as Roy. The thing with Roy is that he needs to find a NEW purpose in life, one which does not involve reforming the military from the inside... because that door has been pretty much closed forever for him.

In general, I have to disagree with your assessment that the manga is "more well thought out and realistic" than the anime. The manga is fairly good, but it's not focused. It intentionally goes off on unnecessary side stories (like the very long digression in Rush Valley, or the whole existence of the Xing people). There is no sign of an end in sight. The sins aren't as well cast as they were in the anime (King Bradley should be Pride, damn it), and the anime introduces some fairly complicated themes that the manga simply doesn't touch. I believe that Arakawa herself has called the manga a kind of "B-movie," pulp type experience.

This is not to knock the manga... I love it just as well as the anime. But it's different. The anime was made by people who were not Arakawa, and with the manga series incomplete were given the freedom to imagine how it would end on their own terms. Of course, the anime has its areas of illogic. But I'd say the anime and the manga are pretty much on par, there.

(Wow, amazingly, I totally disagree with you on every single point! That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate and respect your point of view, however)
Mental Vomit: the answer is in my head.thisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 06:03 pm (UTC)
lol i love a good debate, thank you :)

i think i'm just a sucker for a happy ending, thats my real problem. yeah, i know its exceptionally heroic to sacrifice all of your personal loves for the greater good of humanity. *sigh* i know, i know. but that doesnt mean i have to like it lol if all of my assumptions are correct, i will not be truely happy with the way the movie progressed unless they come out with another one that has them find a way back to the FMA world. they are both too talented and they both have too much they left behind. neither of them would be where they are without the help and dedication they got from the military crew and the rockbells. i REALLY dont like that they just up and left them behind, even if it was for the greater good.

as for roy? yeah, he's been depressed before, but what bothers me the most about his mental state in the movie is that at the end of the anime he was happy. he sacrificed his career, he lost his eye, but he was alive and was loved. it was a happy ending for him even though he didnt accomplish his goals, but then poof. he's off wallowing in misery refusing to use alchemy because it remindes him of his failures? ehhh. where did that come from? why wasnt it addressed? he is such a popular character and such an important aspect to the story and they didnt even address him really. i mean, even if he didnt rise to the top of the military, he still ended a war-monger's rule! its better than nothing, thats for damn sure and i think he's smart enough to see past his own goals to the bigger picture.

the manga vs anime business though is really just a matter of opinion. i like the way the entire story is presented better in the manga than in the anime. it makes more sense to me. i found too many times saying "wait. whaaa? where did that come from? thats a little too convenient!" in the anime than in the manga. *shrug*
Laura: FMA: Pay for Lovetavella on July 24th, 2005 08:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm kind of bugged about the whole Roy thing. One of the things about Roy in the anime was that he had a lot of pride; even when he was truly despairing in the aftermath of Ishbal and the Rockbell's murder, he went for the grand dramatic gesture of suicide at the site of their deaths, not say, slowly drinking himself to death. It's really hard to see him wanting to endure the constant low level humiliation of being a grunt in the army that he was once a general in.

Especially we already know he had a lot of enemies, who I'm sure would do their best to make sure it was as publically humiliating as possible. Hell, even of those who weren't specifically his enemies, I'm sure there's plenty of sergeants and lieutenants who wouldn't be able to resist being able to brag about having their boots shined by a former general. And it's not like he's actually helping anyone by doing this; he's using none of his military gifts, or his alchemical gifts, or even his native intelligence and leadership abilities.

And then we didn't even get any conclusion; are we just supposed to assume he went on to live out his life as Corporal Mustang? Bleah.
Mental Vomitthisisnotmyname on July 24th, 2005 08:11 pm (UTC)
ugh EXACTLY! thank you, thank you!

Hime D. ~創世の錬金術師~: No EThime1999 on July 25th, 2005 06:37 pm (UTC)
Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank YOU.

ex_sockren on July 25th, 2005 08:32 pm (UTC)
I agree with everything you've said. Especially your points about the manga. However, there are several instances where the manga covers plot holes found in the anime. The anime just happens to be more tightly knit than the manga.

The characterizations in the manga are vastly different as well. Ex: Roy <-!!!111!!!! RAWR.

::Bitches about how people blew up over Hughes!Nazi:
Hime D. ~創世の錬金術師~: Angry Edhime1999 on July 25th, 2005 10:48 pm (UTC)
*bitches with Soku*